Thread: Coticule/ natural hone grit question

A lot fo great info has been given.

I also use and prefer naturals for everything, I don't use anything synthetic.
I use a Coti from bevel setting through dilutions and end on plain water.
I sometimes throw in the BBW after I set my bevels on the Coti, or if the razor is not that far off, I can use the BBW to set a bevel also.

What I'm hearing you're problem is, is the problem with naturals. It's hard to estimate grits and hard to get 'progression' grits rating.
Hence why when I use naturals, I seem less to think in terms of grit, but more in terms of feedback from the razor and stone.
And it will take some time to get to know you stones. I'll be honest and say that I have no idea what kind of grit my coti on heavy slurry is, or on plain water; all I know is that I can set bevels on it and that it leaves a very smooth edge on plain water, albeit I prefer the Thuringian finish, so after the Coti with water I use a Thuringian.

I had enormous trouble earlier on, cause I was thinking, what if I didn't dilute enough, what if my edges are not ready to be finished, etc. etc.
Which are very valid questions, the only thing I was able to check was if the razor shaved arm-hair in every way possible so I knew my bevel was set, that was the only thing I knew for sure.
That's why after the bevel setting on the Coti I use(d) a BBW, and do some dilutions on that hone, because it's less aggressive and leaves a good keen edge. After that I go to the Coti with plain water and try some HHT tests off the hone. Plenty of discussion about the HHT, it's open to interpretation, but if you can manage to use it successfully, it's a valuable tool. I use mine coming off the hone to see if it passes, I get very good HHT from the BBW, Coti and Thuri. But not all of those mean that the shaves would be good. So, yeah, I had to figure it out the hard way.
It's a progressive method I use, but I like it because it gives me a little more certainty. It's all trial and error. Test are handy, but you need to know how to use them and how to interpret them.
In the end the shave test is all that counts, I've been honing for years and just a couple months ago found great success.


Also, when i first started honing I had a small natural BBW/Coti hone, that BBW side left the most amazing edge ever, unfortunately, I haven't been able to replicate results since that hone was lost with moving.

No-one has mentioned it directly yet - but if you want to compare hones, look at the scratch marks as well. I know it's not just as simple as that, but the general rule must follow that a shinier bevel means a finer grit.

Wow!

Thank you all for the great feedback and info! Yall are truly an amazing group! Answered a lot of the unknowns and doubts I was having about my progression and the mechanics behind it. Now the best thing for me to do is to learn what each of coticules have to offer. Do some playful experimentations. Again thank you all!!! I "get it" one....hopefully sooner than later.

All Coticules and BBW can run the range as can the La Loraine, as said, some are fine finishers. What you have to do, is grit range your progression. And perhaps cut down the progression by eliminating any sideways move.

I would suspect the Thüringen is the finest stone and finisher, but until you check you really will not know.

Take the stone you feel is the lowest grit and hone a razor with a straight stria pattern, then mark the halfway point between the heel and toe on both side of the blade with a thick sharpie line. Now hone what you believe is the next highest grit stone keeping the sharpie line on the edge of the stone.

The heel half will be the lowest grit, the toe half the next highest grit. Now compare with magnification, if your guess is correct, hone on the next highest stone, honing on the heel side of the line over the coarsest grit stria and compare the new stone.

Keep doing this with all your stones until you know exactly where each lay in the progression.

If you had some synthetic stones you could do the same and possibly get an approximation grit range on your naturals, of course, this would not include the potential of the slurry, just the base stone and it would be an approximation as just one larger grit will determine the grit size. Naturals are rarely that uniform and can change from side to side.

It would be some work, I would mark the stones in pencil to keep the order straight, but if your goal is a full natural stone progression, you would learn a lot about your stones and perhaps eliminate some from the progression. At the very least you will know where each should or could go in the lineup, you probably only need, a 3 stone progression.

If you do this please do post your results, I would be interested in them.

Just to throw my 2 bits in, and at the risk of saying the same thing others have said, in different words ...... Back when I first came around here Ardennes had not yet began harvesting/selling their coticules. Vintage coticules were sometimes available from ebay, antique stores, old barbers. So they were scarce. The Norton was dominant and the Shaptons were just starting to be messed with. The only J-nat anyone talked about was the Nakayma. There were the Thuringans, the Scots hones, and everyone was talking about what the grit equivalent on the naturals was.

Now there are a whole lot more examples to choose from, and the same method of comparing naturals to synthetics to have a benchmark. Someone can say their coticule, or whatever, improves the edge past an 8k. So there is a benchmark we all understand. Maybe someone will say their coticule is as good as a naniwa 12k, or their thuringan is equal to 12k or better.

I think it is just a way to have a frame of reference that is recognizable by people that hone and have experience with the synthetics and the naturals. IOW, if I were to say I have a coticule that is like a 12k, I don't mean that it is 12k grit. I would be saying I've gotten similar edges with that stone as what I've gotten with a synthetic 12k. Not that the particular natural was that grit.

Say all that to say ......... like everyone else says ...... you have to try them and see what your results are.

Originally Posted by TristanLudlow

[...] I think the slower ones on water, leaving the least markings, MIGHT be better capable of a finer finish. But this is just speculation on my part.

In my experience, abrasive speed of coticules does not have a causal effect on the quality of the resulting edge. The slower ones may leave a finer polish on the bevel faces, but as far as I can tell this has no noticeable impact on shaving ability or feel.

And just a reminder: Most coticules on clear water hardly abrade at all. So if you want to test the finishing qualities of a coticule, at the very least start with a bit of slurry (or try a unicot). Water alone will likely not give you a clear indication of the finishing properties (although you might find that yours is among the coticule minority that have a noticeable effect when used with only water).

Thanks to everyone who replied on this. Yall ROCK !
When I get a free moment to get the hones out I'll be following the advice and suggestions given on here and hopefully have something worthy to report....lol
I'll keep notes so I don't forget what I did.

Again THANKS !!!!