Thread: One last stone...for now.

Originally Posted by MW76

The Coticule i'm more interetsed for finishing. Id go with a Blue for bevels if i was trying to stick with just Belgian stones. It was something i considered.

Actually, though the garnets on average are larger in the blue, they are less dense so the coticule side with slurry is faster than the blue side with or without slurry. Again, this is a statement for the average coticule and blue.

Originally Posted by MW76

So im getting a Norton 4k/8k and a Naniwa 12k and I have a set of DMT Duo sharp benchstones with 220, 325, 600 and 1200 mesh (interrupted surface).

I have questions.

Is the DMT 1200 mesh really that bad for honing? Ive read in a few places that the diamond is too aggressive for a razor. If the answer is yes i am considering a Chosera 1000 grit. They seem to be the current go to.

If the answer is no and i can get away with the DMT 1200 would there be any point to adding a Coticule to my current lineup?

I had just reached a point where i thought.. ok, i have everything to get started.. then my GF asked me what i want for my B'day next month. Im looking at about a $200 budget. The Coticule is of course much more expensive then the Chosera, but if i don't need the 1000 grit i would seriously love owning a Coticule.

Thanks for any advice in advance.

Diamonds- Don't back yourself into a corner bevel setting on diamonds. They are not good for razors- yes it can be done with some steels, blade geometries and honing styles, but more in a special case instance. I would not choose diamonds for bevel work.

Chosera1k- Great finish, you can shave off this stone, not that you'd want to. It is a much finer finish than typical 1k. However I am sick of my green monster at the moment- long honing sessions leave my hands, and finger pads and table full of green insidious particles that are a pita to try and scrub out. In synthetics as of late, I much prefer circles with my shapton glass 3k for bevel work. Has a jnat similar cleanliness to it.

Next hone- I would say a razor quality jnat hands down. More interest and value has been on my finishers and my low grit stones. Depending on what stone you choose- a razor quality japanese whetstone will have range down to bevel set (but some can be much slower here) up to finishing well over a 12k in edge retention. I use one or two stones usually in my entire progression. Sometimes 3. You don't get that kind of range or shave comfort with synthetics.

Coticule- Utopian is a very knowledgeable honer with a ton of stones- though he doesn't need me affirming this. It is known. I would also talk to glen, mod gssixgun. He loves using coticules and is a honemeister. You might be able to have him hone a razor on coticule for you if your curious if the edge can be to your liking.


For my money- a japanese whetstone or 2 is all you really need in an entire progression, and are a better investment as the shaving edge is unbeatable and their range is greater. My fast lend synthetics are nice to have, but if I only had one stone, I know what kind it'd be and I'd be able to hone from bevel to shave. But you should listen to all the advice from members, go with what rings true for you.

Have to agree with jnats about the range and versatility, but not the number. Come on now, two Japanese naturals are like saying two potato chips are enough

You can also extend the range with different tomo naguras or Mikawa naguras for not much of an investment.'

Cheers, Steve

I never said they weren't addictive.
My foundation's load distribution is proof of that. But I do use 1- 2 maybe 3 stones tops to fully hone a razor- and their ranges over lap. I can shave off natural bevel setters, and depending on the steel- some are better at that- and I can sharpen and finish on the same high end finishing stone. Basically most of my stones I can bevel set to finish on and my edges are comfortable dry- I only add 1 or 2 more for speed.

With synthetics I couldn't do that it's like 5 stones- maybe 4 stones (loose the C1k)minimum for an inferior edge by my count: C1k, SG3k, SG6k, NSS 12k, SG20k. (that's just one high quality stripped synthetic system- there are many others) And it'd cost more for the synthetics. Only comparison is a coticule. Though to be fair- the SG20k 1 stone method is documented on this forum and has some support/ happy reviewers. If you were to just purchase that one stone that is competitive in cost and by many's taste- edge quality. I know Lynn has said SG20k edge is tops. And Aldwyn and Utopian have successfully one stone honed multiple shaving edges off the SG20k.

So my advice is one of the two to people depending on what their face likes. If an 8k edge doesn't leave you wishing for more, but you're a little curious about a sharper blade- then a SG20k could potentially be the last stone you buy. If I knew then what I know now- I'd have started with quality jnats if possible, as the initial purchase of synthetics across the entire range is expensive. Especially if someone is just buying them to start honing their own razors to a level that can meet or beat the better professionally honed shave edges. My experience is that usually they have a lot of stones before they realize- wish I'd have started with these. Also I think starting with synthetics fuels HAD especially for jnat HAD, as you get used to incremental increases or needing many stones as opposed to 1 or 2 that do the job. Same reason starting with an SG20k makes more sense than starting with c1k 3k 5k etc or even norton 4k/8k- it's never gonna be enough. So what if the low end takes more time on a SG20k- the edge you shave with is attainable and can be judged before you buy into the whole system. As for buying the entire system and range: Best value today in that route is prolly the SS stone pack on SRD.

For that reason- stones like coticules and jnats that can provide their finished edge and go lower should be the first stones purchased in my opinion- they get you to your shaving destination with the luxury that their particles will afford. You like it and want more- then you start looking at how to do it faster.

So yes, I do think it's less stones for the equivalent or better quality and more enjoyable. Plus you spend more time learning a stone when it's 1 or 2 in a system. Less mess, stress, money and better honing. That's my $0.02

Of the 2: C1k or Coticule, I vote coticule. Hands down. If you don't like it, and can't return it for some reason- you have one stone instead of several to sell and a 'used' natural will hold its value better than a used synthetic. (value not price paid per say- but its true value: natural)

I don't disagree with anything you said except for the final conclusion. So many beginners have been frustrated trying to learn to hone with just a coticule. I really like coticules, but other than for experimentation or demonstration purposes I never bother setting a bevel with one.

Because I really like coticules, I have over 30 of them, with a few more loaned out at any given time, but I also have almost as many synthetic bevel setters ranging in grit from 400 to 2000. That's because I also really like to experiment with bevel setters. They truly are the hones responsible for making razors sharp and I consider it a huge mistake for so many beginners to drop a lot of money on finishers but then try to go cheap on a bevel setter.

For jnats, I will say that I would be perfectly fine with recommending a beginner who was interested in a coticule to purchase ONLY a coticule AND a Naniwa Pro 1k.

A year in and I'm of the same mind as Jnats. With the exception of a good bevel setter, I'd much rather have a natural hone progression of 1-2 stones. I don't know enough about Japanese naturals to say they're the method I'd have gone with instead. But I would probably be happier if I had bought a couple of smaller Arkansas medium/extra fine stones as opposed to the norton 4K/8K.

Originally Posted by Utopian

For jnats, I will say that I would be perfectly fine with recommending a beginner who was interested in a coticule to purchase ONLY a coticule AND a Naniwa Pro 1k.

This sounds like the route i would have took had i known. For now the budget is blown so i'm gonna do what i can with a synthetic 1, 4, 8 and 12k.

I just ordered the darn things..lol.

I have no regrets. My lower mesh Duo stone gets pulled out twice a year to sharpen my axes. Im still glad i have it though.

Can you have too many stones?

Originally Posted by MW76

This sounds like the route i would have took had i known. For now the budget is blown so i'm gonna do what i can with a synthetic 1, 4, 8 and 12k.

I just ordered the darn things..lol.

I have no regrets. My lower mesh Duo stone gets pulled out twice a year to sharpen my axes. Im still glad i have it though.

Can you have too many stones?

Can you have too many stones? A: Depends entirely on your foundation, homeowners insurance policy, and likelihood that your wife will slice your throat with one of your straights. For the most part, No.

Originally Posted by jnats

Can you have too many stones? A: Depends entirely on your foundation, homeowners insurance policy, and likelihood that your wife will slice your throat with one of your straights. For the most part, No.

My wife knows better than to put a straight razor at risk by a throat slicing.

Originally Posted by Utopian

My wife knows better than to put a straight razor at risk by a throat slicing.

Im afraid if i keep talking about it my GF will use one on herself.