Thread: some tips about Japanese hones ?

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Originally Posted by Kees

After reading the above quote I went to this site and read this:
" Why are harder stones for experienced users only? The harder the stone the harder it is to raise slurry from it, on Japanese Natural stones slurry does the work and polishing so if you do not get slurry from your stone there will be no result at all to the user."
I have a hard Nakayama, I use it without slurry and it gives me great edges. So I wondered: is this the common opinion as to how Japanese natural razor hones work?

It's not just about slurry, tho it's pretty much a generality about cosmetic polishing of blade faces on tools swords etc.

An experienced user can use a much harder stone to polish a knife bevel than a beginner because he has light enough hands but slurry is always used. Push hard on sandpaper & you gouge your job. Stones are similar in that an educated hand lets the stone do the work without scratching & in the case of razors without collapsing the edge. On razors hard stones are desirable as they maintain the geometry well.

When you consider how hard awasedo are hardness is a relative term tho. They are all harder than synthetics. A Gokumyo 20k notwithstanding.

Doing a few strokes on water alone on a hard razor stone may give your razor a great shaving edge but may scratch up the soft steel face of a J/ kitchen knife. It's a matter of jockeys for horses not horses for courses

From my "limited" experience on European stones, like coticules, eschers, rozsutec, Water of Ayr, surprisingly a TOS, Charnley forest etc... none of them even compare to a good, hard but not overly hard nakayama asagi or shobu asagi (the Ozuku are a bit tricky, they usually are extra hard and make the whole job harder, still for razors they are fine) and nakayama or shobu slurry stone, they don't have to be the same type with the base stone.
Find a reputable seller like Maksim at JNS, Alex at Japanblade, Garret at Japanese-whetstones, all members here. If you know Japanese, I can give you a couple of other sellers, their prices are usually better for the same stone, and you can also try the fine-tools.com who surprisingly started bringing good Jnats.
I have tried other quarries, but their stones are NOT like the above suggestions, not like Nakayama, Shobu and Ozuku. There are also a couple of other contenders like Wakasa, or the rest of the legitimate east Atago mines like Naturaki, Okudo and a couple of others, but try the real deal from the start, and, get an asagi strata stone, with the rest, there is a chance you won't get what you are looking for.
The most recent stone I've tried was a Kozaki kiita, medium hardness stone, eats VG10 steel like a norton 8k, maybe even faster, but the final edge is that of a medium grade coticule, whereas the shave with a good Nakayama, Shobu (shobudani) or Ozuku it was unique, I can't describe it; absolutely smooth, absolutely sharp "I want to marry this stone!" Also, don't get a "type 100" or 15x5cm stone, get an 20x7.5, the full deal.
And final note, stay as far away as possible from 300 mate. Mate used as in "friend".
As for the hardness argument, I disagree, it's not about being amateur. I have a shobu asagi and a nakayama maruka something something, we are working on the naming thing. Similar hardness. Yet one eats steel even without slurry, while the other kind of polishes here and there like a Chinese stone. The shave is great from both of them but the performance isn't. So, I would argue, it's the feedback of a hard stone, not the hardness of the stone.
Good luck.