Thread: JNat vs 12k stone

Agree with everything...

For a guy starting out, it's very hard to beat the SuperStones.

Where in Canada are you?

Originally Posted by opusx11

Where in Canada are you?

Close to Toronto.

Ah ok, if you were nearby, I'd offer to bring both and meet up. In that case, I'd suggest the 12k while learning as well.

I would suggest moving on to naturals after gaining skill with synthetics. The reason is simple, with a synthetic hone you have a known quantity. Your 12K hone WILL be a 12K hone. A natural could be a good finisher, it could just be a hone shaped rock. Most naturals require more prep and dressing than a synthetic. Synthetics are often a lap and go affair. And you don't need to worry about using slurry effectively on a synthetic - get it wet and hone away. It will streamline the learning process, and when it comes time to move on to naturals, you will have some experience AND hones of a known grit rating to compare the edge from the natural to.

Ditto what Marshal said, with one addition: once you're honing successfully on synthetics, you will be well grounded in the honing process itself. This means that when you progress to the natural of your choice, you can focus on learning the techniques and workings of the stone itself because you will already know what the steel should be doing and how to assess your progress in getting it there. Synthetics are simple and predictable (and repeatable) enough that you can focus predominately on the honing itself and not the hone.

There is no need for me to belabour what has already been said, but I'd like to put things in perspective.

The 12K Naniwa is a factory made hone, they are *all* the same..... the price is quite steady, some resellers want more than others, but for the most part, they will all be around the same price.

When it comes to natural hones, it's what the market will bear, and being natural hones, they will vary wildly.

I am going to paraphrase an old, now long gone, friend, who sold woodworking equipment. He was speaking of Taiwanese copies of North American designed and built machines back in the early 80s.

So in razor hone speak, he would have said: "This is a Jnat stone for $100. This over here is another Jnat stone, but it costs $1000. The first Jnat stone is NOT a $1000 Jnat stone being sold for $100".

The moral of the story is that factory made stones/hones can be thought of as reliable. You can assume that any reputable seller who sells you a Naniwa 12K super stone, is selling you a Naniwa 12K super stone, and not a Chinese Wun Hung Low copy of a Naniwa 12K stone.

In Jnats, it is not so easy. You will need to determine the sellers reputation first, then perhaps select a stone together with the seller and then purchase it with a solid return policy, so you might return it if you are not satisfied.

In the latter scenario, you will need to be able to USE the Jnat properly and be able to adjust your use of it to eeak out it's best performance. A man made hone like the 12K Naniwa SS is a known commodity, and most of us will know how to make it work and can help you out. With a Jnat... it all depends on the particular stone you select, and only people who have used THAT very stone, will be able to help you. This is why everyone is recommending the Naniwa. It's because we can help because we know what stone you are holding in your hands, and we know how it behaves, and what you need to do to coax out the best performance out of it.

Sure, down the road, you might wish to try a natural hone of some kind. At this point, you are on your own (with Jnats and a great dealer, you can get support from said dealer and the help you need to figure it out). Naturals are a "you figure it out" kind of deal... which is fine for someone with experience, and deep pockets, but NOT for someone just starting out.

Case in point is myself.... I had an extended lay off from my straight razors and hones, due to an illness (5+ years). When I came back, I figured no sweat... I know what I'm doing.... NOT. It took me several months to get the *feel* back on the hones.... Today I'm pretty good about how to get an edge on a razor, but I'm still not the capable guy I used to be back around 2007.

For the record, I purchased a rather small Jnat from Garret a while ago... it was NOT cheap. After a couple of months, I'm very satisfied with the edges I get off that stone and yet, just the other day, I improved on that edge with another natural hone. The problem is, I don't know if it's because that other hone is *better* or if I just don't know how to get the maximum result out of my Jnat. The latter is the most likely case, I'm sure.

I have many naturals now, and they all produce great shaves. I also have my Naniwa hones, and they are NOT going anywhere. I know them very well and I know that whenever push comes to shove, I can put a very nice edge on ANY razor with those hones.... Will it be the ultimate edge? I don't know... perhaps, perhaps not, and that's why I keep using my naturals..... hoping to improve the edge off the Naniwa hones. Sometimes I succeed and sometimes I don't.

Regards

Kaptain "I'm a windbag, who knew?" Zero

If you can aford it go for the 20 k suehiro . I,ve shaved with several 20 k edges and its hand down as good if not better and easier, and a mate of mine who has j nats says he did,nt think anything could beat his j nat for keenness. I sent him a razor honed by Jamie with 20 k edge, guess what he,s gone out and brought one, he loves it and his j nat is redundant .