Thread: Burnishing a coticule stone

Originally Posted by Iceni

I've just got my stone today, And I've been playing with it all morning.

It looks similar to KenG's. Probably the same vein.

Out of the box it was very rough to hone on. Felt like marbles or grit with slurry, So I lapped it out with a 400 diamond plate and tested again. It still had the rough feel. So I lapped it again to 1K.

It's an odd rock. I've put 3 razors over it. The original 1K razor came off the rock sharp cutting arm hair and after stropping a reasonable HHT3-4, The second one took a lot longer to get it to feel right on the rock, and came away with an edge that refused to cut arm hair, After stropping this went into a really solid HHT4.

The last razor well I didn't use slurry on the second razor, And by the time I got to this 3rd razor the rock is so slow I can't see any material been removed in the water. I did about an hours worth of honing. Off the rock the razor refused to cut arm hair again. After stropping the edge is like lighting. HHT5 for most of the blade (the toe is at a 4). The stone has taken a glass like polish and feels like my arky when honing. No idea what the shave will be like but I'll get to test it later.

The burnish after that 3rd razor is mirror like. It's even reflecting colour. I need to do full shave tests to see what the rock puts on the edge but so far the burnished finish looks slow but very promising. My worry is that edge doesn't feel like a coticule edge.

Attachment 233799

BUMP.

So what happened?

I'm still learning it. And still getting different edges depending on how much polish I put into the rock.

It seems to function best when finished to the highest level I can get it to. And using a finished razor (12K). Then build the lightest slurry with the slate side of my rubbing stone or a glass block. Doing this the edge is pretty much always fantastic. It's still coming off the rock feeling like there is no edge, and after stropping it's going right up to a level of sharpness in the HHT 4 region. I have most of my razor rotation finished like this now so it's providing me with edges that I think are really nice. Soft edges that you can't feel on the skin, They don't shave to BBS without a 4th pass but on a 2-3 pass shave they provide a totally irritation free DFS. Slapping up my face with aftershave after a pat down with one of these edges and there is no sting unless you hit a weeper. All of my coticule edges have been finished like this at this time, After a few shaves and a few refreshes with crox these edges are getting better and better my Bismarck 7/8 is currently on a HHT 5 and the edge is so soft it's insane.

Using the coti side of the rubbing stone removes the polish of my stone finish and the combination of both veins is fast but inconsistent. I can only assume that there is some coticule voodoo working there. Perhaps the garnet sizes and rock hardness differences and working against each other. My rubbing stone is defiantly softer and from another vein. The edges with the combination slurry are still there but depending on the razor I get some nice edges that feel sharp, and others that just don't feel right at all. Hence I don't use the combination slurry now. Getting that buttery feeling is just not happening for me with this method. The edges all feel sharp but not as good as a thuri edge.

Using a diamond plate (1K) to raise slurry I find that I have to work the stone a lot longer on the thinning stages. There is a point with this method where the slurry is gone, but the edge isn't quite there. Adding more slurry with the diamond plate puts you right back at that point and to get past it takes a lot of strokes removing very little to get that sticky feeling. Once you get to that stage the edges are good but sometimes inconsistent. The extra time on the hone and the fact I'm using a razor to add polish to the rock is probably the fault. I had one razor like this that felt like it had 2 edges. The heel felt buttery sharp, the toe felt regular sharp! Others have come off with an edge that feels like the Neutral block edge all over. Other edges have come away feeling like a regular sharp edge with no buttery feeling. The extra time to hone and the inconsistency is why I don't do this one any more.

I've tried to use the stone from a 1K, 5K, 8K, and 12K finish. The best results for me have all come from a 12K finished razor using the neutral block slurry on a rock that is well polished. When I try to use my stone for anything lower than 8K I find it'll work provided the slurry is there, but getting it to drive past that stage where the slurry has died and you want the edge to come in all sticky just takes far too long and allows the stone to be inconsistent. As such I'm using my rock is a finishing only coti. I've not tried a touch up with it yet on a razor that has been shaving and needs a refresh. I may find I have to take it back to 5K then through to 12K again as it may not have the cutting power to refresh without the minor reset. Every razor that has been finished like this seems to be getting better with use. So perhaps I need more Crox from the off to see if I can make an edge perform as well from the start.


I'm sure in 6 months time It'll all be different again! For the minute I like my polished coti a lot.

Interesting read Iceni. A lot of data collection there. Do you have a lot of razors or are you just honing these three very often?

I have 10 or so decent blades, and 5 RSO's that will shave. Most of the testing was done on RSO's. And with those blade I'll happily reset to 1K after every test shave. A couple of them have flat ground spines as well so I have a bigger visual on polish. Ugly but functional items.

I tend to focus on something for a full day at a time rather than little bits here and there. And that plays well when you are testing multiple things out. The only problem tends to be finding enough face for the razors! I've spent a few days on the rock since I got it in April. Shaves have been staggered out after a hone day so I can see what has worked and what hasn't. I'm still learning new stuff about how it works and feels every time I touch it.

I think my hone is a bit of a freak TBF to it. It's a great rock, but it's not at all what I would have expected a coti to act like.

Originally Posted by Iceni

[...] After a few shaves and a few refreshes with crox these edges are getting better and better my Bismarck 7/8 is currently on a HHT 5 and the edge is so soft it's insane.

But at that point you are shaving with a chromium oxide finished edge, not a coticule edge. That being said, they are both comfortable in their own regards, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Iceni

Using the coti side of the rubbing stone removes the polish of my stone finish and the combination of both veins is fast but inconsistent. I can only assume that there is some coticule voodoo working there. Perhaps the garnet sizes and rock hardness differences and working against each other.

I sincerely doubt there is any voodoo going on. Also, as far as I know, the hardness of a coticule has little to no influence on its performance. I'll get back to the inconsistency thing.

Originally Posted by Iceni

[...]I've tried to use the stone from a 1K, 5K, 8K, and 12K finish. The best results for me have all come from a 12K finished razor using the neutral block slurry on a rock that is well polished. When I try to use my stone for anything lower than 8K I find it'll work provided the slurry is there, but getting it to drive past that stage where the slurry has died and you want the edge to come in all sticky just takes far too long and allows the stone to be inconsistent.

You keep mentioning the inconsistency of the stone, which I find a bit strange. You try a plethora of things that include loads of variables. Your methods give you varying results. Your only constant is the coticule you use. One stone. There is not much variation in that.

I do not think the stone is inconsistent; most likely, it is you. I intend this as constructive criticism, just to be clear. This is a large part of the fun in the learning process of honing on a coticule. It's not so much about the stone as it is about you.

Originally Posted by Iceni

I'm sure in 6 months time It'll all be different again! For the minute I like my polished coti a lot.

You probably will. Every time I invest a bit of time in one of my few coticules I find small new nuances. In my approach, that is.

Originally Posted by Iceni

I think my hone is a bit of a freak TBF to it. It's a great rock, but it's not at all what I would have expected a coti to act like.

It takes a bit of figuring out how to use it to its full potential, which takes you in odd directions at times and surprises you when you think you figured it out? Sounds like a regular coticule to me.

May you enjoy it in good health for many years to come.

But at that point you are shaving with a chromium oxide finished edge, not a coticule edge. That being said, they are both comfortable in their own regards, in my opinion.

I can't agree fully with that. The edge is still buttery smooth after several crox refreshes. I've never had the same sensation on the skin with any of my other finishers. Even after multiple refreshes. While I agree the polish is no longer a coticule polish at that stage, whatever a coti does to give that almost round bar like feeling on the skin is still very much in play. Perhaps if I continue to use a pasted stop for a time then this will level out into an edge that would resemble any edge that has seen a lot of Crox on a strop. It's just not at that point, perhaps it'll get to a stage where crox become ineffective and the razor needs a re-hone. I can't say ATM because I'm not there, It'll take a quite a few shaves only using one razor to hit that limit.

I sincerely doubt there is any voodoo going on. Also, as far as I know, the hardness of a coticule has little to no influence on its performance. I'll get back to the inconsistency thing.

Anything I can't explain gets credited as voodoo. To be using a method numerous times, seated, on different razors, and not getting results on any when using 1 method. That tells me there is something amis. I'm certainly not done testing the coticule side of my rubbing stone. It's just not working on my hone atm. I may go so far as to contact Ardennes Coticule and have a selection of rubbing stones from various veins shipped. My own rubbing stone has colour change in it going to purple and at one end that change is pretty close to the face, so it could well be that my rubbing stone is producing a slurry closer to a BBW slurry. When I use something neutral like the glass block those problems vanish. When I raise similar thickness slurries, 1 neutral, 1 with the rubbing stone. The rubbing stone slurry is far faster at removing metal, The problem is my hone seems to struggle to finish an edge to buttery when I've use this method. I've not ruled out user error, I am more that aware it may be me. And I don't live locally to another honer to have them try it out, ATM this isn't a problem as other solutions have paid off.

I'm also not struggling with my honing. My flailing post may make it appear that way. I get good edges that are on par with blades I've sent out, and because I only have a small collection I know what each razor I own is capable of. Your man there asked how I was getting on with this rock. And rather than just post a basic reply I figured he might actually want to know what wasn't working as well as what was. It's easy to say you've been getting good edges with method X, It's much harder to say this wasn't working and to explain why a sharp shaving edge didn't feel right even if it was capable of shaving. Coticule is even harder because the sharpness is overruled a little by the buttery factor.

And it's my bad grammar making the stone out to be inconsistent, It 100% the edges. The stone in all instances felt pretty much the same once polished past the gravel phase, the edges that came off with the different methods most certainly were not. If I've read something works then I'm not the sort of person to test it once but if something fails then I want to know why. And if I can't answer that then I have to look at myself, take a few days, shave with something else or test another one from the same batch and see if the problem is with all the edges from that batch. And if it is then I have to look at that and think about how to improve on what I have or re-test the same situation on a fresh honing day. The goal in all instances is to be able to create the edge that works every time and feels right, and to do that you have to be aware of what didn't work and what to avoid doing.

And thank you for the criticism. It's made me look back on some of the things I've tested, and some of the things that need to be added to the pipework. And reminded me that when posting I flail, a lot, and often manage to miss key elements that I was thinking and failed to express or express poorly.

Finally, I'm very happy with my hone. I know it might sound like a lot hasn't worked with it. And it's true it hasn't been a smooth transition from simple solution hones like thuri's and N12K's. My every day razors are all finished on it ATM. And I can't see that changing in the near future because the edges I've been getting are fantastic. And I can only see them getting better. It's just taken a lot of playing to find a near dial-able solution.