One Stone Hone: Coticule, J-Nat, or Something Else?

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Originally Posted by Marshal

The inherent problem with 1 stone for everything is natural finishers aren't particularly great bevel setters - and heaven forbid you have to do any sort of repair on one. My research indicates the vast majority of '1 stone systems' are actually '2 stone systems.' A 1k bevel setter, and a finisher that can be slurried to remove the stria from the 1K and gradually diluted to polish the edge. 3 if you count slurry/nagura/'diamond nagura' stones.

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Yeah, I could see a two stone setup but I guess one would be too tough.

For diamond slurry, what grit does one suggest? I have seen where people use the DMT that have for flattening and also seen where small pocket DMT's are used in coarse and fine. Can you use extra fine to create slurry, it is like 1200 grit, I believe?

I asked because I have a DMT 2x6 in extra fine just sitting here NIP and I don't know what to do with it. I was gonna sell it and get the 325 grit one for lapping. I don't suppose you can lap with an extra fine, can ya? This is the interrupted surface one like a honeycomb face on colored block.

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Originally Posted by SirMike

So has anyone come up with one stone that will do it all? From bevel to finish?

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Yeah I got one :p

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...lynn-glen.html

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Yeah I got one :p

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...lynn-glen.html

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"This will be great for those of you that don't own a ton of razors, and that have the time to mess with the ones that need re-touching after a test shave... You really need a bevel setter, for those razors that need heavier lifting, I used a King 1k during all my testing since they are so cheap to buy, and straight forward to use..."

Couldn't help but point that out. I think maybe we should be drawing a distinction between full bevel resetting, and touch ups that require minor work that can easily be done on any slurry stone.

Keep hold od that 1200. They do have their uses. Some folks use then before a less aggressive 1K stone to expedite bevel set if they had to wear out a chip or similar issue. They can also be used to build slurry, and in plce of 1k sand paper if you're polishing a hard natural. I think some folks use them for maintenance type lapping as well, though not so much for the initial heavy lapping required on a new stone.

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Originally Posted by SirMike

So has anyone come up with one stone that will do it all? From bevel to finish?

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Keith Johnson claims to do that in this video (with a beautiful stone, too!).

From experience with a ton of J-Nats, you will not find a stone that does it all. If you want to repair edges on a J-Nat you will not have a finisher, if you want a finisher you will not be able to repair edges. Your best bet is a 1k bevel setter and a good hard finisher with Botan + Mejiro+ Tomonagura.

To sum it up you have to know what you want from your stone and buy accordingly, but there will not be one-stone-to-do-it-all out there.

I voted for the coticule for a few reasons.

1. A coticule of decent size isn't going to break the budget and most come with their own rubbing (nagura) stone.

2. There are ways to easily obtain a shaving edge from most if not all coticules.

3. Coticules are pretty straight forward when it comes to choosing one. If it's a coticule, it's a coticule and likely suitable for razors (although there are definite softness differences from coticule to coticule). Other then that the difference from stone to stone is minute. Unlike a Jnat where you've got to get one from a good source or brush up on some terms and try your luck on the bay. All natural stones are like this though. Then comes learning the stone.

4. There is only one slurry to worry about from one slurry stone. Taking a few variables out of the equation.

5. If the user wants... the slurry stone can be used to hand hone kitchen knives, I do all the heavy work on a coarse synthetic and then sharpen the knife up using the slurry stone.

I love coticules and do 90% of my honing on them, they are not easy stones to learn, the user has to be prepared for a lot of trial, error and frustration. They have to really go it alone as my coticule doesn't behave like yours... you get the picture. Many recommend beginners to start with 8x3" hone such as the Norton, naniwa, shapton etc. Learn this and then go to naturals. This is to help as the stroke of a beginner isn't perfected yet so a wider surface is ideal and also give a repeatable process to get a shaving edge. A coticule in this size costs hundreds so if a coticule is what your after make sure that you can effectively utilize a smaller surface area to its full potential. A 150x40mm being ideal for a beginner who doesn't want to break the bank.

You said you were leaning more towards j-nats but the prior writing was for anyone considering a coticule for honing and sharpening knives.

I know you'll get whatever suits your needs and that's all that matters is what works for you.

- Scott

I started with the one stone idea. It does work with a coticule only now I have many stones and kinds of stones. My best advice for coticule one stone is find a hard stone one like a la verte and get a fast slurry stone. This will allow for harder work on heavy fast slurry then once down to water give you a nice finish edge.

hatzicho uses a german quartzite from the taunus mountains, called artaunon, for bevel setting, edge refining, and finishing. it might be a good idea to get in touch with him!

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ml#post1632191

hans