One Stone Hone: Coticule, J-Nat, or Something Else?

[vileru]

I should mention that I'm leaning towards a J-Nat, especially since I travel to Japan about once a year and it will allow for my hobby to help me maintain my language abilities. I also like that the variety of nagura seems to offer a lot of versatility. Since I'm interested in making my purchase in person in Japan, I'd love to hear advice from anyone who has experience buying J-nats in Japan.

The key thing is that I only want a single stone, and preferably a stone that works well with Japanese kitchen knives, too (I have a gyuto, and I'm planning to get a kamagata usuba). I have a 1K King synthetic (which I'll probably upgrade to a Naniwa Chosera at some distant point in the future). The idea is that I'll use the 1K for bevel setting and heavy work, and the natural stone for everything else. I'm tentatively setting my budget at USD $300, but I'm open to adjust it in response to feedback. If I can get a nice system for less than $300, then even better. I'm not planning to spend a cent until 2017, so I have plenty of time to consider my options.

So, given my needs, what do you say: Coticule, J-Nat, or something else? Or, if the kind of setup I'm proposing is just entirely unrealistic, then please let me know why.

[Hacker7]

It really depends on your honing experience. I am not familiar with Jnats but I don't think they fall into a one hone stone like coticules. If you chose coticule you may have to try several stones to find one that works for you. Do you have any stones beside the 1k King. There are a lot of factors in play here so some history of your honing experience will help others guide you.

[JimmyHAD]

I'm not a one stone advocate so I didn't vote. If kitchen knives are in the mix I definitely wouldn't consider a coticule. If it is only razors, I would think a j-nat. Which one ? Haven't a clue. Ask Stefan, (mainaman) he knows his stuff in that department.

[vileru]

Do you have any stones beside the 1k King. There are a lot of factors in play here so some history of your honing experience will help others guide you.

No, I've never honed a razor before, only knives. I'm aware that honing razors is very different compared to knives, but I'd really like to avoid having to "train" on a "starter kit" of 4/8K and 12k synthetics before I'll be "ready" for naturals. Japanese sushi chefs, carpenters, etc. start off with J-nats, so I don't see why, in principle, I can't follow in their footsteps. Of course, they had mentors to help them out, but I don't see why that should make me think starting out on my own would be a foolish endeavor.

The reason I want to go with the one stone hone is so that I can keep things minimal (I don't want a quarry) and achieve a balance between cost and the quality of the edge and the "honing experience". So I'd really just like to buy a basic setup and be done, maybe at most expanding my nagura progression (koma aren't cheap!).

It looks like I'm going to be spending the entire summer of 2017 in Japan, so I'm sort of hoping to get lucky like Jim Rion and find a barber who will mentor me.

Anyway, I hope the info above is helpful. Sorry if I sound a bit aggressive (it's hard to tell how you come across over text), but I just want to make my motives and needs clear.

[mainaman]

For razors you want a very hard base stone and naguras. For knives you should get a separate medium stone, such as Hakka, Tsushima Nagura, Hideriyama. You can use the medium stone before the naguras with good success right after your 1k synthetic.

[vileru]

So I've found a few stones being sold online by Japanese sellers as appropriate for both knives and razors (and carpentry tools). For instance, this uchikumori renge suita that's rated at a 3.5 hardness (Google translation).

Obviously, the stone linked above is out of my budget, but I'm wondering if one can get satisfactory edges on both knives and razors from the same stone. If so, then that would be ideal for me.

Is there any reason why I couldn't just have a 3.5 or 4 hardness honzan and use coarser nagura for knives and finer nagura for razors? Let me add that I'm not worried whether this setup would be ideal, but rather whether it'd be reasonably possible, given dedication and patience, of course.

[aaron1234]

I think if you really take good care of your blade all you need is a finisher. If all you need is a finisher then it doesn't matter which finisher you get. I don't think it's a good idea to re-bevle every time you hone.

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[Marshal]

I think if you really take good care of your blade all you need is a finisher. If all you need is a finisher then it doesn't matter which finisher you get. I don't think it's a good idea to re-bevle every time you hone.

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All well and good until the day you drop your blade in the sink and need to repair the dinged edge. Can be done with a finisher I guess, but you'll be at it a while.

If you only want 1 stone to deal with I would consider finding a coticule with BBW as a backing stone. Use the BBW side for kitchen knives, and the coticule for razors. Plus you'd have the utility of using the BBW to expedite bevel setting if need be. Then you just need a rubbing stone for each side and you're set.

You could add a king 1K (or similar) and have a solid bevel setter in the mix. No need for a quarry if you're diligent and dedicated, but I'm sure you understand the reasons a beginner is advised to obtain a set of synthetics and learn on those rather than trying to naturals route.

[crazy4str8tsinnc]

I have to say that I just love working on coticules. Pocket knives to razors, I just love to work with one. That being said, I just finished sharpening my Shun kitchen knives on a Jnat with stellar results and I get sharper edges on my razors too. If I could only pick one or the other to do everything from kitchen knives to razors I would have to vote jnat, but I would miss my coticules dearly.

[crazy4str8tsinnc]

I have to say that I just love working on coticules. Pocket knives to razors, I just love to work with one. That being said, I just finished sharpening my Shun kitchen knives on a Jnat with stellar results and I get sharper edges on my razors too. If I could only pick one or the other to do everything from kitchen knives to razors I would have to vote jnat, but I would miss my coticules dearly.

And yes, you would be there forever trying to fix a chip. A good coarse stone is definitely recommended as well.