Thread: Ebay Gamble

Mother nature took 350 million years to produce your Arkie and she did it well. It is 99% silica there is nothing better. But It is a different animal. I keep reading people wanting to burnish the Arkie that is a bad idea. I the old days oil was use to keep the arkie from loading up. Let me repeat that one "loading up the stone" There is no such thing as burnishing an arkie . If you use a chisel or and ax on it until it is smooth you only "loaded the stone" This is like buying mud grips for a 4x4 truck and then cutting the tread off the tires and wondering why it goes trough the mud slow or not at all. It is a myth burnishing the Arkansas .

Oil is used rather than water because oil fills any voids in the rocks surface and makes a rough stone appear smoother to the edge. In effect it floats the edge better.

Loading the stone is different to burnishing.

A loaded stone is full of swarf and old oil, The surface of the hone is dirty, and while the dirt may make the hone act smoother the finish is softer, and not the stone.

Burnishing is the breaking down of the grit on the stone, You are physically grinding the grit, grinding off the high spots and making the actual rock one continuous high polish surface. The finish is much harder, And because the rock itself has filled most of the voids water can be used rather than oil. It's not common with stones because in order to burnish a stone the correct binder and grit conditions need to be present. The rock needs to be hard, the grit needs to be hard, and the binder needs to be holding everything solidly so no grit comes loose at all when honing. When all those 3 happen you can take a rock that is 1000 grit and polish it. It's this polish we refer to a burnish. And the finish from such a stone is what level of polish you can impart. A burnished stone can be cleaned fully, and will have no dirt on it, whist still been polished.

Softer arks do shed grit, and this is why soft arks are never burnished because the grit been lost means it's a fruitless task to even attempt to burnish them.

To say burnishing is a myth is frankly wrong, there is photographic proof of burnishing, and most people who have a finishing ark have at some point burnished one. For anything other than a razor however the burnish would be undesirable. Knives do not benefit from a 10k+ edge, or the massive speed drop from trying to use a burnished stone. Knives however are not razors.


When you add a slurry to a burnished ark you move the goal posts. In effect it is like the ark becomes a flat and neutral stone. Doing an absolute minimum to the edge, allowing the slurry to be the only abrasive. In this instance any neutral stone could be used, since the hone is only providing a base for the slurry to function on. The advantage of an ark is it's harder than just about any other hone sized object, It comes in the correct dimensions, The face is already geared to finish, and in a lot of cases any slurry you apply to the hone will not significantly alter the polish you have spent time creating on the ark. Also because it is a hone the base will not have any detrimental effect on an edge, Softer glass, or harder base rocks may have a detrimental effect. I have a neutral diorite that will also work in the same way.

Coticule slurry is a prime candidate because coticule binder is often soft. When you have a soft coticule it doesn't matter how small the garnet abrasive is as more abrasive will be released every swipe of the blade. Using a neutral rock instead of base coticule allows you to control the abrasive, And will let a fast non finishing coticule to potentially work as a finisher. This is really useful as only the hardest slowest coticules will act as a high end finisher, and you can go through many to look for that perfect finisher. This system allows you to take a selection of rubbing stones that are far cheaper, or a full stone that isn't quite a finisher and potentially get the last bit from the abrasive. Thuri slurries are not really needed as thuri stones do not suffer in the same way with massive abrasive release.

Originally Posted by Iceni

Loading the stone is different to burnishing.

A loaded stone is full of swarf and old oil, The surface of the hone is dirty, and while the dirt may make the hone act smoother the finish is softer, and not the stone.

Burnishing is the breaking down of the grit on the stone, You are physically grinding the grit, grinding off the high spots and making the actual rock one continuous high polish surface. The finish is much harder, And because the rock itself has filled most of the voids water can be used rather than oil. It's not common with stones because in order to burnish a stone the correct binder and grit conditions need to be present. The rock needs to be hard, the grit needs to be hard, and the binder needs to be holding everything solidly so no grit comes loose at all when honing. When all those 3 happen you can take a rock that is 1000 grit and polish it. It's this polish we refer to a burnish. And the finish from such a stone is what level of polish you can impart. A burnished stone can be cleaned fully, and will have no dirt on it, whist still been polished.

Softer arks do shed grit, and this is why soft arks are never burnished because the grit been lost means it's a fruitless task to even attempt to burnish them.

To say burnishing is a myth is frankly wrong, there is photographic proof of burnishing, and most people who have a finishing ark have at some point burnished one. For anything other than a razor however the burnish would be undesirable. Knives do not benefit from a 10k+ edge, or the massive speed drop from trying to use a burnished stone. Knives however are not razors.

I have to disagree there is no burnished Arkansas it is just a dirty stone with all the pores clogged up. This is called a loaded stone. In the old days oil kept the pores clean. I don't use it my self the kitchen keeps my stones clean, but if you choose the use of honing oil or water with your Arkansas stone it will help keep your stone free of shavings that can clog the pores of the stone and make it less effective.

Originally Posted by Iceni

10k+ edge, or the massive speed drop from trying to use a burnished stone. Knives however are not razors.


When you add a slurry to a burnished ark you move the goal posts. In effect it is like the ark becomes a flat and neutral stone. Doing an absolute minimum to the edge, allowing the slurry to be the only abrasive. In this instance any neutral stone could be used, since the hone is only providing a base for the slurry to function on. The advantage of an ark is it's harder than just about any other hone sized object, It comes in the correct dimensions, The face is already geared to finish, and in a lot of cases any slurry you apply to the hone will not significantly alter the polish you have spent time creating on the ark. Also because it is a hone the base will not have any detrimental effect on an edge, Softer glass, or harder base rocks may have a detrimental effect. I have a neutral diorite that will also work in the same way.

Coticule slurry is a prime candidate because coticule binder is often soft. When you have a soft coticule it doesn't matter how small the garnet abrasive is as more abrasive will be released every swipe of the blade. Using a neutral rock instead of base coticule allows you to control the abrasive, And will let a fast non finishing coticule to potentially work as a finisher. This is really useful as only the hardest slowest coticules will act as a high end finisher, and you can go through many to look for that perfect finisher. This system allows you to take a selection of rubbing stones that are far cheaper, or a full stone that isn't quite a finisher and potentially get the last bit from the abrasive. Thuri slurries are not really needed as thuri stones do not suffer in the same way with massive abrasive release.

If this is an experiment with slurry okay. I don't see the reasoning for it . Why not just use a slurry stone if you like slurry? Why drive a nail with a crescent wrench when you have a hammer laying there? I am for the experiment though I like to hear what people have learned on here.

Arks can indeed be burnished without being loaded up. They are two separate entities - burnishing and loading.

As Blake already mentioned, burnishing can be thought of as merely polishing the stone - it means the sharp edges of the abrasive particles have been dulled or flattened - any pores in the stone will remain unfilled/unclogged. This would be described in grinding wheel parlance as "glazed." This can be accomplished by mechanical polishing with fine abrasive or by a LOT of rubbing steel on stone while taking care to keep the stone well lubricated and regularly cleaned during the process by wiping with a cotton cloth and clean oil until the cloth comes away clean.

Loading means the stone will be clogged with steel particles that are jammed into any voids in the stone and won't come loose even with cleaning. in such a case the stone would need to be relapped.

Of course the condition described by AlienEdge is also possible, and in such a case the stone would be glazed and loaded.

If this is an experiment with slurry okay. I don't see the reasoning for it . Why not just use a slurry stone if you like slurry? Why drive a nail with a crescent wrench when you have a hammer laying there? I am for the experiment though I like to hear what people have learned on here.

It's not ideal to be using strange methods to produce shaving edges. Jnats work in a very similar way. You have a hard base stone, and then a selection of rubbing stones that produce different grades of slurry. The sharpening is mainly done by the slurry and not the base rock. In order for it to work the base rock needs to be able to deal with those slurries without degrading.

The ark system uses a similar thought process. It's not done because the ark is slow. It's done because the ark is hard and isn't going to deteriorate. The polishing of the ark is something that a large proportion of finishing arks receive to place them over other stones. It slows them down, but it also means they give a very nice unique edge. A well polished ark can improve the edge from most stones synthetic or natural.

This also isn't an education in how to use an ark correctly. There are many ways to use an ark, And the various grades and finishes mean it is a very competent stone to have about. This is more an education in how to get the best from other stones by using the advantages an ark can provide.

The whole an ark doesn't burnish thing is frankly insane. I have one sat by me right now that is clean as a whistle, and was face polished with diorite under soapy water. There is 0 chance that stone is loaded but it is very certainly burnished.

Well I have to confess you guys have me on the slurry. I don't use a slurry. I am old and Arkies are all I use and I have for more than half a century. Some of the stone have been passed down through the family and some are not very old . I have never bought or received an Arkansas stone the was so rough I thought it needed to be violated with a flat head screw driver , ax, or chisel. I can see my re flexion in my surgical black and Translucent reflex things as well. I have never lapped or burnish any of them. I have used all of my Arkie so I will make a point to go by the hard ware store get a new black or trans out of the glass case and feel how rough they are now days. If you have an Arkansas stone fine an end you haven't burnished. Fine the roughest spot on it and try to strike a match. Then ask your self does this stone really need to be any smoother. Also for those that have problems sharpening or honing with the Arkansas stone I don't think burnishing and lapping the stone is going to help. You might try holding the stone up next to the hone master in the mirror and asking a question. Which one of us is really the problem? Mother nature does it best in my opinion.

Well you are very lucky if you received your stones in such a condition that you could already see your reflection in them. Most suppliers send them these days with quite a rough finish - mine were nowhere near the level that would show reflections when I got them - this is why guys often talk about burnishing them a bit.

Originally Posted by eKretz

Well you are very lucky if you received your stones in such a condition that you could already see your reflection in them. Most suppliers send them these days with quite a rough finish - mine were nowhere near the level that would show reflections when I got them - this is why guys often talk about burnishing them a bit.

I did not say that. I said I never received a stone so rough that I need to violated with something. I honestly don't remember looking for a re flexion when I got them. There is a re flexion now. They were always smooth. I picked up a surgical black that had a saw mark in it, but i knew something wasn't prefect because it was cheap.

Well all the same, they reflect now, and they give good edges. So what's the problem if someone buys a new stone and wants it to give good edges right away? There's no downside to burnishing the stone if using it for razors.