Thread: Choosing a Hone Meister

I've managed to learn to refresh my razors with diamond and chromium oxide pastes, a 12K Naniwa Super finishing stone down to a 1K Naniwa Specialty stone to include a 5K and 8K stone but I don't yet know how to set a bevel. I prefer to have a hone meister do that, at least until I learn to do it without tearing up a nice, new razor.

My questions: is it best to stick with the same hone meister for any given razor rather than switch to another equally good hone meister? Many of the recognized best, not surprisingly, not only know each other but are close friends.

Do they all reset the bevel each time they re-hone a razor?

Doesn't resetting the bevel at every honing wear out the razor sooner or does it merely set up the edge for further sharpening and final polishing evenly across the entire edge?

Thank you,
Mike Slate

It's only something you can practice to learn.

If you want to learn but don't want to damage a decent razor you have a few options.

Grab a cheap razor and do a few runs killing the edge and resetting. It doesn't need to be a gold dollar type. A sight unseen from whipped dog, or a cheap ebay vintage. Provided the razor is free of most flaws then you should be able to learn.

Bevel set each honing, no. It's dependant on what you want to do and what the razor needs. A newly owned razor is going to want a full reset in most cases. A shaving razor that just needs a boost you can probably start at 8K. The aim in most cases is to give it what it needs, not remove a lot of metal.

Resetting every time will increase razor wear. Provided it's light resets that isn't a problem. You can also tape the spine to preserve it. It'll take a few hours at 1K to significantly reduce the blade depth by a significant amount. Again if you have a cheap razor to play with you will see this. It takes physical work to remove chips in an edge. Depending on the size of it and your stones it may even be a few hours for a 1/16th chip. Most people when they want to remove a chip will use something more aggressive than a 1K. Be that a diamond plate, or a more coarse stone.

As for the Hone-Meisters thing at the basic level of honing on a perfect razor a good proportion of the community can and do produce stunning edges. The Hone-Meisters are there for the people that don't hone, or for the honers to deal with problem blades. And that is a reflection on skill and knowledge. They generally offer a selection of finishing stones as well, meaning you can sample an edge before you buy a rock. It doesn't mean you'll be able to make the same perfect edge, but it will give you the benchmark of where to head for. As such you should shop around and find the guys that are offering edges done on stones you are thinking about buying. Often these people also sell the stones and will give good advice on what to look for.

Will a Hone-Meister reset the edge every time, Very probably. It depends on how busy they are. I would expect them to be batch honing. Taking a selection of blades, then taking them all through the same basic rotation to get that edge to where they like it. Then finishing either as a batch on a standardised finisher, or bespoke on a selected finisher if they offer that.

You can switch honemeister as much as you like. As long it's a reputable person that you can trust and knows what he's doing. However the shave is the most important so if you are totally satisfied with the edge coming from your honed razors then sometimes the grass is not always greener somewhere else.

A true honemeister is just that so it should not matter which one you send it to. Notice I said "true". There are many wannabes out there who claim the title.

A bevel will be reset if it has to. If a razor just needs a refresh and is otherwise in great shape I don't think a honemeister would mess with it.

I wouldn't worry about the bevel. If you are competent you will never wear out the razor. On the other hand if you're ham handed with a hone you could do serious damage.

Originally Posted by MikeSlate

Doesn't resetting the bevel at every honing wear out the razor sooner or does it merely set up the edge for further sharpening and final polishing evenly across the entire edge?

Setting a bevel is sometimes portrayed as overly complicated, difficult, or mysterious, which it is not. A bit of an explanation should clear certain common misconceptions that have resulted from this.

On any razor in good shape setting a bevel is exactly the same as any other step of a honing progression - the razor is rubbed on the hone until there can be no further improvement and then the exact same thing is repeated on a finer hone for the next stage of refinement of the edge.

The only thing that can be difficult is fixing a bad razor - poor geometry due to manufacturing or damage from honing, restoration, etc. But this is correcting of near fatal razor flaws and while for efficiency it involves coarse hone and the end result is razor with a good bevel, any issue has nothing to do with a 'bevel setting' but with the poor state of the razor.

If your razors are in good shape, which apparently they are as you are maintaining them successfully, there shouldn't be anything to be concerned with. Your hone should be enough to keep them sharp, and if you let them deteriorate to the point of needing coarser hones, the process on them is the same you are already familiar with.

Today I was honing on some practice Genco razors an 4/8 and 5/8", the geometry is off on both but real bad on the 4/8, so, had to get gnarly with the 1k and jointing to get that Hard little devil to straighten up, but it is worth it when done, even though you have removed the high metal in the spine and both were warped in the middle?, since these were freeby razors, I can get down and grind away, and removing metal is what it is all about to get the geometry in shape, I'm happy to have these learning razors and learn at least an Hour a day sometimes, I'll spend half a day honing just for the experience, figure out what each razor needs by looking it over Very carefully, mental notes or on paper and get to it, soon one realizes that they are getting much better every day, I doubt I'll stop honing every day for a long time, a year or two maybe, unless civil war breaks out here, that is a game changer.

Mike, there are a Bunch of competent Hone-meisters in Cali, Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
Just ask and I bet someone not far from you can help with Honing etc.

Thank you, Iceni or do you prefer Blake? Anyway, your explanation was both complete yet succinct. I learned a great deal. Lynn Abrams offered to send me some old razors so I may begin to learn to set a bevel so of course, I said, "yes." My dad suggested that I never try to hone a razor, instead, "leave it to a good barber, find a Swede or a German hone meister or try it myself and mess it up." One of my dad's uncles was a master barber and owned a barber shop in downtown Bend, OR for many successful years. So now, I'm asking questions about honing from the bevel up! Oh well. Some kids don't listen, right? Dad was my hero and we had a great relationship but now that I'm 68 years old, retired and bored silly, I don't think he'd mind if I told him I'm going to learn this difficult art called honing. I did learn a lot from Lynn's YouTube videos on how to refresh a razor but struggled at first with simply using pastes to refresh an edge. Seems I waited too long to do it, ended up with a seemingly sharp edge (in reality a foil) that fortunately did not roll over or break off. Lynn's honing operation was down for a while when he moved so he suggested Max Sprecher. I think either of these men are terrific. I cannot tell the difference in the shave on the same razor from either so that tells me they are both masters. Since Lynn sharpens all he sells (except Ralf Aust's and Esbjerg Koraat's razors which truly are factory sharpened shave ready) and offers a free second honing, I wondered if saving money by accepting the freebie would make it more difficult for Max to hone the same razor afterward. It didn't seem to. Max's operation is very near me and his turn around time is quite quick with no reduction in work quality so he's a great resource and a fascinating guy to talk to when he's not busy. He told me that he would not make a custom razor for a new straight razor shaver until after the intended user had shaved with a straight razor for at least six months. That seemed odd but he certainly has no shortage of orders and those who don't know much about straight shaving probably tend to complain when an experienced shaver would know what to order in the first place. The entire process of selecting a razor and maintaining it fascinates me. There are still artisans right here in the good old USA who are altruistic in offering their help; amazing in today's overly competitive world. I appreciate your response and really did learn a great deal from your thorough answers to my question. Thank you - - Mike Slate

I am totally satisfied with your work, Max, and appreciate all that you have done for me. Your web site makes it easy to research how to do whatever with a razor without having to bother you with questions so you can work unimpeded. (Careful, your wisdom is showing.) As long as you'll service my razors, I don't have to look anywhere else, my friend. Warm regards always, Mike Slate.

I worry about EVERYTHING. Just ask me to worry about something for you and I'll let you know the outcome in about two weeks or more! Hah! Seriously, I may never work up the nerve to set the bevel on one of my nice razors. I'm just sneaking up on trying it because I think it would be satisfying. I don't ever want to get to the level of Max or Lynn. They do work. I just want to practice as a hobby. Both are fine, no? Thanks for your reply --Mike Slate