Thread: 12000 Japanese whetstone vs 12000 Chinese whetstone

Please excuse my ignorance but could someone please explain to me the difference between a natural Japanese finishing stone vs a natural Chinese finishing stone.

I am new to honing and I have recently bought a Chinese stone for a good price. It may be slow but seems to do a good job. When I read online regarding Chinese stones people seem to refer to them as cheap and refer to Japanese stones as exotic (costing higher prices). Is it true that Japanese natural stones are superior or is it more about marketing?

All natural stone cannot be grit rated, they were naturally made over Thousands/millions of years.

They were river beds, were silt collected and eventually became stone. If just one rock of a coarser stone, or other minerals, rolled into the bed, the grit structure would change completely. What do you think, the chances of that happening over the course of Thousands of years?

On the other hand, Synthetic stones undergo strict quality control to ensure the stone is consistently, of the proper grit size.

Unfortunately, many of the stones, of the type you purchased and others, commonly sold on EBay and other on line sites, are “Marketed” and I use the term loosely, to be of a particular grit size, and they are not. Some not even by half the grit size, some can finish, some cannot.

These stones are the cause of hundreds of post and endless frustration of new honers.

If you want to learn to hone, learn on known grit synthetic stones, once you have mastered honing, then experiment with naturals.

Japanese stones vary, like all natural honing stones. Some, a very few, by comparison are capable of honing razors. Then ones that are, are very collectable and drive the price.

There are some that are more affordable due to shape, color, and size and perform well for razors. Though affordable is in the eye of the beholder. There is also a learning curve with Japanese naturals, as there is with most naturals.

Much is written on Jnats.

I've had great luck finishing with a Chinese '12K'. I don't know (or care) what the grit really is as long as it does the job and my particular stone does the job.

With any natural, Japanese, American, Chinese, etc... you may see some variance.

Since you already own it, use it. If it works, you came out $$$ ahead.

Aaron I own a Chinese 12 as well as a Shoubundani Asia. The Chinese is excellent. The Shoubundani is outstanding. BUT they both are unique natural stones. Your question is similar to asking if a redhead is better than a blond. The issue is really unique. Which one makes the better spouse depends upon which makes you happy.

My question is.... "Where did you find a 12000 grit Japanese *NATURAL* stone"?

To me, and I may have the wrong end of the stick here, it sounds like you are comparing the Naniwa 12K hone to a Chinese natural hone, the latter which is often assumed to be 12000 grit, but nobody really knows, and there is a fairly large variation in those hones, from what I understand as I have not examined a bunch of them.

A Naniwa 12000 grit (often we simply refer to it as a 12K) is NOT a natural hone... it is a man made stone and it marketed as a 12000 grit stone. BUT, I think it's important to remind EVERYONE that one manufacturer's 12K is NOT another manufacturer's 12K! Each manufacturer has their own scale of grits it seems.... For example, Naniwa claims their finest hone is 12K but Shapton has a 16K and a 30K hone. I have both the 12K Naniwa and the 16K shapton, and I find very little difference between them. The same can be said for Shapton's 30K and the Suehiro Gokumyo 20K, which many here swear by, but, both have a few people who swear AT them.

I actually like the Japanese way of looking at hones, there is a coarse hone, an intermediate hone and a polishing hone (And yes, I'm sure there are nuances that I am not aware of..... I'm just trying to keep this simple guys!). They also have Nagura stones that create slurries to bridge that range of hones.

Hones are quite difficult to quantify, there is not only the grit, but the material the grit is made from, and then there is the binder... the glue that holds the grit together. There is a huge variate of combinations.... it's what keeps us hone junkies going!

Please, never assume that anything anyone says about this or that hone, to be the full truth, because nobody knows it ALL.

Some Coticule owners are in a constant search for the "ultimate" coticule.

Some Jnat owners are in a constant search for the "ultimate" Jnat.

Many of us settle for man made hones which are a whole lot easier to quantify.

Then there's me.... I have both, and I have discovered that no matter what I currently think I know about a natural hone... there's always something new to learn about that hone, around the corner....<sigh>

Regards

Christian aka

Kaptain "Clueless about hones" Zero

“Please explain to me the difference between a natural Japanese finishing stone vs a natural Chinese finishing stone.”

To answer your original question, a synthetic 12k hone, is 12k. A natural hone touted to be 12k, is of unknown grit, and purchase is a roll of the dice.
From the practical experience of many, most are not even 6k, though some can finish a razor.

The same standard exists for Japanese stones; few are 12k or close. Keep in mind the vast majority of honing stones, synthetic and natural stones are mined and used sharpening tools and knives, a very small percentage are suitable for razors.

What Japanese stones, do have is a cadre of quality dealers, who will offer expert advice and even sell you, a recommended hone with a satisfaction guarantee. Sometimes you get what you pay for.

If you are interested in purchasing a quality, Japanese razor hone, do your homework, ask a lot of questions, and find a local mentor or quality dealer, there are many post on Jnats.

I do have a Chinese hone that will finish a razor, but really, there are much better alternatives.

Thanks everyone for your responses. I am new to honing straight razors and I'm enjoying the learning process. I believe over time I will end up collecting a number of both synthetic and natural stones. For now I will focus on mastering what I have before buying any more stone.