Thread: Need help ID German hone

Originally Posted by Kristian

Did you just write "small selection" Sebastian? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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Hey ok it was a misnomer...the whole selection i own(ed)....[emoji23]

Originally Posted by doorsch

It still looks like a typical slate for me! Probably its from one of the other quarries....

Did you test it compared to others you showed ?

Here is a small color range, where you can see which range is possible on thuringian hones

Apologies for the late reply!
No, I haven't tested the "Erbo" hone, only the other Thuringian I got...
But that honing session didn't end well.
I have still much more to learn about honing and shaving with a straight razor before I can judge a stone's characteristics...

Anyhow, I have put the Erbo hone for sale, I will keep the other one though.

By the way, that is a beautiful collection of hones!
Are they all Thuringians?

Originally Posted by Rolle

Apologies for the late reply!
No, I haven't tested the "Erbo" hone, only the other Thuringian I got...
But that honing session didn't end well.
I have still much more to learn about honing and shaving with a straight razor before I can judge a stone's characteristics...

Anyhow, I have put the Erbo hone for sale, I will keep the other one though.

By the way, that is a beautiful collection of hones!
Are they all Thuringians?

Sometimes things have to go....

Where are you from? Pm is appreciated ;-)

Yeah those are all thuringian Hones, we have a good range of Coloration in those

Originally Posted by hatzicho

Well probably you got a special thuringian waterhone there, which comes from a quarry that was operated in the 1920's. The hones are black with a soemhow grainy look.
Here are some examples:

Attachment 250327
Attachment 250328

Compared to a normal light green thuringian:

Attachment 250329

There also green variants of that grainy looking hones, but I am not sure if they have been mined at the same quarry:

Attachment 250330

For the name Erbo we can only speculate. Of course Ernst Bonsman is an idea, but this company mainly trades under the name Three-Anchor-Works and had their special trademark with the 3 anchors. All hones I have from this company, mostly small ones that were added to the scalpell or cutter knifes (mostly under the name Estima) have been labelled with the anchor mark. Also under the listed additional trademarks of this company you won't find the name Erbo.

Another guess would be that it is a variation of the name Erbe from the company Heinrich Adolf Erbe, which was a very famous company for cutlery works in the early 20th century. They were located in Schmalkalden, Thuringia, not far away from the thuringian quarries.

Sure looks very similar to the one's in the first picture you posted!
Are these darker, grainy looking hones also coarser?

Three-Anchor-Works you say, my second Thuringian hone that I got has this label on the box.

Originally Posted by Rolle

Sure looks very similar to the one's in the first picture you posted!
Are these darker, grainy looking hones also coarser?

Three-Anchor-Works you say, my second Thuringian hone that I got has this label on the box.

We have different Qualities of thuringian Water Hones, in the end all of these are very fine hones...there is no remarkable "big" gap between the upper devonian slates....we have different sizes of the abrasive particles but as said the difference is not too big...

The second you showed is an Escher & Co. which can be identified on the Escher cup in the middle.

More can be found in Peters (Hatzichos) Document here:

http://strazors.com/uploads/images/articles/escher.pdf

Originally Posted by doorsch

We have different Qualities of thuringian Water Hones, in the end all of these are very fine hones...there is no remarkable "big" gap between the upper devonian slates....we have different sizes of the abrasive particles but as said the difference is not too big...

The second you showed is an Escher & Co. which can be identified on the Escher cup in the middle.

More can be found in Peters (Hatzichos) Document here:

http://strazors.com/uploads/images/articles/escher.pdf

Thank you for the information and document, very interesting reading!
I would have never guessed that the label with the cup was actually used by Escher.

Would you mind if I asked for some honing advice in using the Escher?
I just finished a Pyramid progression with Naniwa 5K & 8K superstones on a Dovo 1/2 hollow, carbon steel.
Bevel set with a Naniwa Chosera 1K.

How many strokes should I aim for on the Escher without risking to overhone the razor?
Would I need a light slurry at this level or can I hone on just plain water?

Apologies for all the questions! [emoji5]

Originally Posted by Rolle

Thank you for the information and document, very interesting reading!
I would have never guessed that the label with the cup was actually used by Escher.

Would you mind if I asked for some honing advice in using the Escher?
I just finished a Pyramid progression with Naniwa 5K & 8K superstones on a Dovo 1/2 hollow, carbon steel.
Bevel set with a Naniwa Chosera 1K.

How many strokes should I aim for on the Escher without risking to overhone the razor?
Would I need a light slurry at this level or can I hone on just plain water?

Apologies for all the questions! [emoji5]

One if the reasons many people come here is to answer questions for others, that we had when we were starting out. So no apology necessary.

According to Moler's Barber Manual (1926) you cannot overhone on a Thuringan or Escher. I will generally do 20-30 round trips on an Escher. Some think that is overkill, but that is what I do. A light slurry and dilute until I'm close to water only. If I find upon testing that I need more round trips, I go back and do more.

On a La Veinette coticule I once recorded finishing strokes (water only) and doing 30 at a time, stropping and testing (HHT) it took just over 160 round trips. Apples and oranges I know, but it really depends on too many factors between razor, hone, and honer to predict a definite number of strokes. So any specific number is just an average. IMHO ........

Originally Posted by Rolle

Sure looks very similar to the one's in the first picture you posted!
Are these darker, grainy looking hones also coarser?

Indeed these grainy looking hones, at least the large black one I showed and the green one are, definetely coarser than the usual water hones- thats why I said they come from a diferent quarry. But- there are nearly each color of hones from really yellow till totally black - all coming from the original quarries in Steinach/Thuringia. In this deposit not less than 167 different whetstone layers have been found from which in different stages/ time frames approx. 120 have been used and sold as thuringian waterhones. So this explains the wide variety of colors within the Thuringians. That in mind - we have to say that the difference in performance- speed and fineness is very small. But apart from this deposit in Steinach, there are a lot of other quarries in the wider area of Steinach and Sonneberg in Thuringia.

Your answer on how many strokes you need on a got Thuringian or Escher labelled hone is easy and on the other side very hard to answer. It all depends on the preparation of the razor before you step to the Thuringian. We normally say the razor must be already shave ready, before you use the Thuri for final endfinishing. So if the preparation is good on your 8 k and you can shave with the razor, even if it might not be the most comfortable shave, than you need only a few strokes on a good thuringian. If the preparation is not the best you can also go to the Thuri but may need to raise a bit slurry and stay longer on it. The thuringian gives a "special taste"" to a razor edge and I have found out that this is nearly independend on the different steels, tempering or even grind of a good quality razor. It is also possible to hone your razor on higher end stones above 10-12k i.e. a Gokuyumo 20k that gives a very sharp edge - then and go "back" to the Thuri to get a bit less sharp but more comfortable edge (in my mind - I don't like it tooo sharp). But you have to try this individual. Best if you know how to get your razor shave ready with your artificial stones first and then add the Thuri as a special endfinisher. The Escher hones cannot do any miracles in the honing progression. They just give a very special edge as an endfinisher.