Thread: Labeled vs unlabeled hones - what to know?

Can someone please make it clear what natural stones have an equivalent 'labeled' (and typically more expensive) counterpart(s)? I'm drawing off this thread here, for example, eg, is a La Lune simply a labeled La Lorraine (and is that different than a 'Special Stone for Good Razors'?)? Is an Escher simply a labeled Thuringian of sorts? Are there other stones out there that have a labeled counterpart that can be bought unlabeled for cheaper and perform the same?

Thanks

Originally Posted by Shokunin

Are there other stones out there that have a labeled counterpart that can be bought unlabeled for cheaper and perform the same?

Thanks

You had everything correct until the very end

That right there is a matter of opinion

Compare it easily to trademarks, you can get things quite cheap owning the same or near the same performance if it doesnt show a well known brand or stamp. It might be made in the same company, but it is sold under different trademarks....

I can tell you that you might probably in the stage where many of us have been or many of us are still into....the search of the holy grail of stones ;-)

We all strife to find that one stone delivering the best we are looking for. In the end i would tell it doesnt exist! Everything is personal preference weather you like a specific type of stone or not. Stones which others like or propose might be the wrong one for you, Stones you like might be wrong for others. The only way to find its is trying out what suits you personally the best.....

The stones you mentioned are all different and in my point of view do not have a cheaper substitute. The only way to get one cheap is to buy an unlabelled version.

When you get to know the Eschers, by having a lot of labelled stones pass through your hands (with end labels identifying color) you could probably recognize an unlabeled stone, or know which color an Escher is that only has a back label.

Be that as it may, selling an Escher without at least a back label, even a partial one, is not going to bring near what a labelled stone would bring. IME the market ebbs and flows. They are going for half of what they were bringing a year or two ago. Speaking of Eschers. I don't know the other stones that well.

Good post Sebastian! Buying an unlabeled version can be a risk. You could get exactly the same stone as a labeled version or you could get something not quite as good. That's the benefit to the label - you know you're getting a stone that meets some criteria set by the maker of the hones. An unlabeled stone could be a labeled stone whose label fell off, or it could be an equivalent stone or it could be an inferior stone. No way to tell until you test it.

As far as best edges, it does seem to be an individual thing with some stones for sure. There are some that most people agree are pretty darn good though - Eschers and Black/Translucent Arkansas stones being two well-known examples.

If it's German hones you are looking at then there are a few option for getting one without a label that should work as intended. After all one of the member on here lives in one of the old quarry sites and has a small website that sells some offcuts and rough cuts from the exact location they originally came from.

Gutes aus alter Zeit - Neu entdeckt

Are they Eschers, No. Do they work as intended very much so. Perhaps not as cheap as an ebay gamble, but at least you can see what you are getting and buy with confidence.

If it's a Belgian you want then I'd advise contacting Ardennes Coticule directly via email.

http://www.ardennes-coticule.be/en

Again you won't get a cheap bargain, but Maurice knows his stuff and if you explain what you want and what you want it for he will go and look for a suitable rock rather than just taking a gamble.



If you are wanting cheap then you have to know your stone. Ebay is a great place if you are willing to take a gamble, but remember it is a gamble so keep the bids low if the pics are poor. The best place to get rocks from is hands down local sellers/House clearance people. Most of the time they have little idea about rocks, The ones that do ebay them. So if you do find a cache of them in a box at one of these places having a good rummage can produce world class stones that will cost you nothing.

Originally Posted by Iceni

If it's German hones you are looking at then there are a few option for getting one without a label that should work as intended. After all one of the member on here lives in one of the old quarry sites and has a small website that sells some offcuts and rough cuts from the exact location they originally came from.

Gutes aus alter Zeit - Neu entdeckt

Are they Eschers, No. Do they work as intended very much so. Perhaps not as cheap as an ebay gamble, but at least you can see what you are getting and buy with confidence.

I Merry Christmas'd myself a couple of stones from Gabriele. Yellow Green/Blue thuringian and a mottled black Schwedenstein. Looking forward to comparing them to my old labeled Eschers.

Originally Posted by Iceni

If it's German hones you are looking at then there are a few option for getting one without a label that should work as intended. After all one of the member on here lives in one of the old quarry sites and has a small website that sells some offcuts and rough cuts from the exact location they originally came from.

Gutes aus alter Zeit - Neu entdeckt

Are they Eschers, No. Do they work as intended very much so. Perhaps not as cheap as an ebay gamble, but at least you can see what you are getting and buy with confidence.

If it's a Belgian you want then I'd advise contacting Ardennes Coticule directly via email.

http://www.ardennes-coticule.be/en

Again you won't get a cheap bargain, but Maurice knows his stuff and if you explain what you want and what you want it for he will go and look for a suitable rock rather than just taking a gamble.



If you are wanting cheap then you have to know your stone. Ebay is a great place if you are willing to take a gamble, but remember it is a gamble so keep the bids low if the pics are poor. The best place to get rocks from is hands down local sellers/House clearance people. Most of the time they have little idea about rocks, The ones that do ebay them. So if you do find a cache of them in a box at one of these places having a good rummage can produce world class stones that will cost you nothing.

Thanks for the links. Kinda wish I'd realized that first site existed. And that I understood a little bit more German. Well, I get enough of it to navigate the site so I guess that's what matters at the end of the day. Now the hard part - saving enough for yet another rock, and justifying the purchase!

Originally Posted by Marshal

Thanks for the links. Kinda wish I'd realized that first site existed. And that I understood a little bit more German. Well, I get enough of it to navigate the site so I guess that's what matters at the end of the day. Now the hard part - saving enough for yet another rock, and justifying the purchase!

There's an American flag on the site's main page. Click that for English.

I have a big ol' Friedman and Lauterjung hone that I picked up a long while back from hi_bud_gl (what ever happened to Sham anyways?)

He told me that it was an amazing hone that used correctly, you could shave off direct without even stropping. And he was totally correct.

I dont use it often, I save my favorite hone for my favorite razors. <--very special rock

I cant recall if he said it WAS an Escher, or if he said it was as good as an Escher.
Either way, it doesn't have a big red label proclaiming the E.S lineage, and it outperforms all but 1 stone in my Thury collection. and I paid less than half of what similar "brand" name stones were selling for at that time.
I know this is not the place to ask such things, but if anybody has a picture of a F & L hone with a complete label, I would love to see it!