Thread: King Stones

Hi all,

I have had many different sets of synthetics in the past, shapton glass, 'norton, naniwa. I never spent the time to learn them and was always drawn back to my coticule's. (I collected way too many) Now that I've let go of the brunt of my bones save 4. 3 coticules and a king 1k I decided to get the king 4k(possibly 6k depends on if the vendor listed it right) and the gold 8k stone. I needed to satisfy my curiosity and these stones come in the size that I like 7 x2.5. I like the clay feeling of the 1k and can see myself enjoying the other stones. Any tips for using these ?

Raise a slurry on the 8k?

I've been around the block a few times with synthetics but am hoping this is the last set I ever buy..

Scott

So they arrived. I used them, I find a nice sharp Bevel off the 1k, the 4K sharpness is still there and then 8k ....> gone. Mind boggling.. this is part of the reasons I let my synthetics all go. All 4 sets... I never learned them well enough.. why can't they be easy like naturals?

A little bit more tinkering. I don't think I spent enough time on the 4K.. jumped too soon to 8k. Did a lot more work on the 8k and came out ready for a test shave. Will know tomorrow for sure.

I find this incredibly strange...I've never felt a blade dull when moving up on Synthetics, even when done early. Just didn't come out sharp enough to shave when I did. Tugging, etc. Did you use a slurry on the 8K like you were thinking in your first post? Maybe that had something to do with it?

Wish I could be more useful, but my set is Nortons. Similar I'm sure, but not quite the same. Only thing I could suggest is, since Japanese scale is different from the US scale, 1-4 is a bit of a jump. So in the future you might want to spend a little extra time on the 4k? 4 to 8 should be ok since that's just doubling in grit rating and my understanding is that's the ideal formula.

No I didn't use a slurry on the 8k. I used more pressure on the 8k and trailed it off to finish on it with much better results. Maybe saying it dulled wasn't the right word. 1 and 4K had that nice feeling on the thumb pad and could pass a hanging hair test. At the 8k it lost its bite understandably but it also lost hht abilities and it didn't feel like it should have on the thumb pad test. Felt too smooth and not grabby enough.


Bought the 4 and 8k from LEE VALLEY and the stones came in a lee valley box with the number designation on them which is bothersome because on eBay the f3 (4K) stone is a green stone while the s3 ( infamous 6k) was orangey yellow and the gold stone is yellow. So it's fully possible I have a 6k and a 8k instead of a 4K.

I've only used the King 800 and 1200 both were and are good hones.

My thought is to just ignore the 'tests' after the 4K and finish up, strop and do the ultimate test, the only test that really matters and that of course is shaving off of the edge.

Give it a go and let us know how the shave was

The HHT is only marginally useful *after* you finish polishing your edge. On a 1K or 4K edge, the hair can wedge into v-shaped notches/scratches in the edge from the coarser grit hones and depending on the particular hair you are using, they may catch easily and break, giving the impression that the edge is sharp, when in fact it's just rough.

I never use the HHT as my hair simply won't work for that purpose. I do find using my "moustache" test, lets me know when the edge catches hair instantly and the amount of tugging lets me know how polished the edge is. I just lightly brush my moustache with the edge in a shaving motion. If the edge is really keen, it catches no matter the angle. When I cut a few of the moustache hairs, I can feel how easy the edge cuts through the hair. It's still not a perfect test, only the shave test matters.

All these types of tests need to be calibrated by the individual and in the end just give you an idea of where the edge is at. As you noticed, you got faulty information from the HHT off the 1K and 4K, so that shows it's not a valid test for you. Perhaps some other test will work better, such as the thumb pad test or...... I can't tell you what to use, only you can figure out what does work for you. If your hones are reasonable flat and your honing is reasonable consistent, there is no way your razor will get duller when you move up in grit, but it will show that you have not done sufficient work on the previous coarser hone.

You might want to have a look at the 1K shave thread..... Once you can shave off the 1K hone, moving up the grit ladder is quite simple, just remove the scratches from the previous hone and you're done.

Regards

Christian

Kaptain Zero I appreciate the reply I do, but I can confidently say that I know what tests work for me when it comes to edge tests .I am a skilled coticule user who never got the hang of the synthetics which led me to sell my sets of naniwa, norton, shapton all because I never took the time to learn and found coticule a lot easier and repeatable for me. Earlier I said that the edge felt off on the thumb pad and also wouldn't pass the HHT after 8k which fails both my tests before I try a shave test. If it passes at 1 and 4 there isn't a reason it would fail at 8k?

I just want to learn synthetics to have another arrow in the quiver so to speak.

If you YouTube the watercot method it's a little video I made on an easy way to get a nice shave. 1k to water only on a coticule. I've done the 1k shave test and I had little to complain about. I rather liked it.

I will make sure next time to remove all the previous scratches because I forgot that synthetic users are always looking at the scratch pattern. Usually I go for polish without worrying if previous scratches are removed since they come from the same hone.

I've got a long way to go to learn these stones but luckily I've got a solid base on what I want an edge to be and the tests that go along with it.

Scott

Probably won't take as long as you think. Once you've got a good idea what level of polish you can get from wleach stone you can probably just eyeball it. But still I find it strange you saw a decrease in sharpness based on the thumb pad test.

Which makes me wonder...it almost seems like you may have had a slight burr or wire edge that got knocked off on your 8k.

You use naturals, are you using the same half-strokes method I do? A back and forth stroke that alternates between edge leading and trailing strokes? I know this polishes very fast on a natural, and the same applies to a synthetic but it's also prone to creating burrs/foiled edges on a synthetic stone. Especially at the 1k level, but I've seen it on my 4k as well.

Do you use magnification at all, or just rely on the thumb pad/hair test?

I use half strokes occasionally but mostly alternating xstrokes.

I use 30x loupe when something is funny. Usually all goes well.

Hmm, maybe just a one-off oddity then. Seems to me the important thing is that it feels shave ready to you. I guess all that's left is the actual shave test, hope she passes with flying colors!