Thread: Coti bout standard and select differences?

Originally Posted by Geezer

Yes, Bart Torfs has been razor testing the stones for Ardens for many years. He is the owner of coticule.be
The site is archived but many articles are readily available and some videos. No membership availability now.
Good information there for sure!
~Richard

I've read through a small amount of that site. The descriptions in the vault did help me come to a slightly better understanding of the coticule I ended up with from Ardennes. It's unfortunate that they no longer seem to accept membership, and that they didn't deal in the ones that tested positive as razor stones. Could've been a great asset, having a source for known good stones rather than having to sort of roll the dice and hope you can comes to a formula that works.

Common sense

When somebody tells me there is no difference between Select and Standard, my head turns sideways much like my dog's when I say "Snack"

I can clearly see there are inclusions in the stone, heck they are a different color, I know they are a different mineral make up..

You can talk Mohs until you are blue in the face, but it seems that the Magical Coticle is the only stone known to Razordom that visible inclusions make no difference


"Select" for me please 8" x 3" also if you have one Thanks

I did also state that my best finisher was a cheap standard bout from a third party, this stone has red, green, grey and some small black lines. Definitely not defective. The one Maurice chose for me is a great all rounder which doesn't finish quite as well. He's definitely a gent who does his best for customers, I'm sure if I'd asked for a finisher he'd have chosen a different stone. My curiosity was more about when you select for razors on his site, standard bouts aren't in the selection, which lead to my question of whether the criteria for select bouts also includes a more uniform shape?

Cheers solitary soldier for the post, that is definitely interesting.

I've read through a small amount of that site. The descriptions in the vault did help me come to a slightly better understanding of the coticule I ended up with from Ardennes. It's unfortunate that they no longer seem to accept membership, and that they didn't deal in the ones that tested positive as razor stones. Could've been a great asset, having a source for known good stones rather than having to sort of roll the dice and hope you can comes to a formula that works.

The thing is that, in the Ardenes coticule forum , you cannot buy , the stones shown in the vault .
They make , some very intresting , advertizing trick , that make the people believe , they are fighting for something , very precious .
It is a complicated system , of endless purchases and bidding , and if the Barf decide , someone "wins '' the right or buyng the stone , ha ha ah
So they make it looks like , they are selling a gem stones , and people are continiousely sayng - i whant number 10 - i whant number 10
I guess , the bidding is under the table , as noone understand what is the way of winning the right , to buy some stone , shown , there .No prises , coplete mess .
Also when you buyng coticule from the ardenes shop , you dodnt know what you are buyng , till it cames .
There is no specific pics , of the stone , you buy .
You only know , that you are buyng a select or non select grade , and the size .
It is a mess up system , that is completely whrong , in my opinion .
Anyway they seems to use very intresting trics , and advertizing techniques , for the stones they sell .
It makes you think that you are the most lucky guy in the planet , for that you can buy a stone from there .
I dont like that , and the hole system , that they use , in general .
How much easyer would be a picture of the stone itself and a prise \ no matter that is insane \ This will gave a customer opportunity to select himself a stone and decide if the price is apropriate for him .
Ive heard that some coticule dealers work that wy and the people are veeeery pleased to buy , this way .
They show a lot of stones with a number and thet tell you evrything So the deal and everything abbout every stone is corect , nd not covered in some misticysm .

Originally Posted by RusenBG

The thing is that, in the Ardenes coticule forum , you cannot buy , the stones shown in the vault .
They make , some very intresting , advertizing trick , that make the people believe , they are fighting for something , very precious .
It is a complicated system , of endless purchases and bidding , and if the Barf decide , someone "wins '' the right or buyng the stone , ha ha ah
So they make it looks like , they are selling a gem stones , and people are continiousely sayng - i whant number 10 - i whant number 10
I guess , the bidding is under the table , as noone understand what is the way of winning the right , to buy some stone , shown , there .No prises , coplete mess .

There never was an Ardennes Coticule forum. There was, however, the coticule.be forum.

The coticule.be forum never had any professional affiliation with Ardennes Coticule, no matter how many times it has been insinuated by others. As far as your advertising claim: it was a forum dedicated to the use of coticules, not to the selling of them.

The stones in the vault were selected and tested by Bart Torfs quite a while ago and are no longer for sale, something that has been reiterated time and time again. These were relatively small batches, and only came along a handful of times - this was in no way a business venture, and if it had been one it would have been a rather silly and unprofitable one.

Sales happened through Ardennes Coticule, not the coticule.be forum. There was in no way any discount involved. Coticule.be did not share in the profits in any way. There is no and never was any bidding, I have no idea where you got that notion, apart from pure speculation and conjecture. Ardennes set the price, and the members payed directly to Ardennes.

The idea behind it, as I understand, was to document certain coticules' capacities as well as to enable members of the forum to purchase some interesting stones that came with a "User manual", so to speak. But there are plenty of stones in the vault that were never for sale (private collections) and merely in there to document the qualities of those stones.

For a forum that was dedicated to one particular type of tool, with only one manufacturer, it was as free of vendor endorsement as I have ever seen in a razor forum, which surprised me greatly when I joined.

And you can contact Ardennes Coticule to ask for a coticule of a particular type/size. They are quite accommodating, when they can find the time. Also, I bet they would love to be able to provide specifics and details on each and every stone; I however doubt that they have the time to do that, as they are a relatively small and quite busy operation. It would be a waste of valuable time and resources for them. As far as I know, besides their own webshop they sell coticules to retailers in bulk, who may then choose to give more details on the individual stones.

Personally, I have not found any discernible difference between select and standard grade, inasmuch as it possible to generalize. As a matter of fact, I have found the standard coticules (again, relatively and generally speaking) to usually be more visually interesting than the select ones, which tend to be more bland and boring, in appearance.

Well i dont whant to argue , i have to admit , most respectfully .
First Bart work for Ardened - he uses to make guiding job and help Maurice in the making and arangement of the stones - Nothing bad , by the way .
Second those stones from the Vault were mostly "rare and intresting stones " as he said and when i ask for the prise he said that , must ask Maurice .
Now, to tell , that Bart ,doesnt have professional affiliation with Ardenes , is a bit naif , realy .
Now they get the best razor stones - ausome stones , by the way .
Nothing whrong , its just that the vault have some very weird system , how to get the right , to buy the stone .
So no matter if you have money or you are first for some stone , if there are more than one , that whant it and the chaos began .
Nothing against Barf - i like him a lot
I just doesnt like , the way this hapens , its ridiculous .
No maters - they make this advertising trick
May i ask , most frendly , when you read - medium hard , fast on slurry and slow on watter , what do you understand , for the stone .
From that description , witch is very similar for the most stones , you cannot get idea for the stone .
On other hand a picture will tell , a thousent things , for the stone .
I dont whant to argue or something , admiration to Bart for the work , i try to understand and ive try to understand how the things work , in the forum for buyng stones , but there is a mess .

I can say that I have purchase two stones directly from Ardennes and both times I asked looking with something in mind. Each time they came back with pictures of the stones with measurements on the stones and what layer it was. So They will provide pictures. Also I always mention that the stone is for razors. Now neither of my stones would be considered select either. One is a nice LL hybrid and the other is a huge spotted La verte. You will not get manganese lines or spots on a select as far as I know. I tend to like the lines and spots, plus I believe they actually can hint at better performance sometimes. AKA speed. The problem is finding what you want when you want it. They only get what is coming out of the ground and I don't think they can dig year round.

Originally Posted by RusenBG

Well i dont whant to argue , i have to admit , most respectfully .
First Bart work for Ardened - he uses to make guiding job and help Maurice in the making and arangement of the stones - Nothing bad , by the way .

With all due respect, if there is an argument, you argue. Which is not a bad thing at all.

As far as I know, Bart never worked for Ardennes Coticule and did not aid in the manufacturing process in any way. He organised/helped in organizing excursions to Ardennes. Anyone can, upon appointment, visit the workshop and quarry, the store is just that, a store that one can go to).

Originally Posted by RusenBG

Second those stones from the Vault were mostly "rare and intresting stones " as he said and when i ask for the prise he said that , must ask Maurice .

He probably said that because some stones in the vault were available for purchase after online publishing, but only directly from Ardennes Coticule, without coticule.be or Bart having anything to do with actual matters of purchase.

Originally Posted by RusenBG

Now, to tell , that Bart ,doesnt have professional affiliation with Ardenes , is a bit naif , realy .
Now they get the best razor stones - ausome stones , by the way .
Nothing whrong , its just that the vault have some very weird system , how to get the right , to buy the stone .
So no matter if you have money or you are first for some stone , if there are more than one , that whant it and the chaos began .
Nothing against Barf - i like him a lot
I just doesnt like , the way this hapens , its ridiculous .
No maters - they make this advertising trick

Naive? Bart himself has said time and again that neither he nor coticule.be ever had a professional relationship with Ardennes Coticule of any sort. With all due respect, if you feel confident enough to claim otherwise you will need actual proof, otherwise your statement could be interpreted as being libelous.

Again, there is no way to purchase stones from the vault anymore. At all. Ever. And when it was possible there was never any bidding involved. Certain hones could be reserved after online publication, as in: members of coticule.be could reserve the right to purchase a coticule from Ardennes, who set the price as they would for any coticule. The reservation system was very much a gentlemen's agreement thing, not a shopping cart (let alone an auction) type of thing.

Originally Posted by RusenBG

May i ask , most frendly , when you read - medium hard , fast on slurry and slow on watter , what do you understand , for the stone .
From that description , witch is very similar for the most stones , you cannot get idea for the stone .
On other hand a picture will tell , a thousent things , for the stone .

Well, the descriptions of the coticules in the vault did include one or more pictures of the stone being described. But then again, I cannot tell much about the honing properties of a coticule by looking at it.

Honestly, I seriously wonder where you got your information.

Best regards,

Pieter

Well this info i get , from observation ,as im also member of the forum . I speak , only from my observation and my point of view .
Anyway , i dont whant to argue , just i have unplaisant experience with 2 stones that i like and i could not get . Anyway , maybe its just my point of view , and bad luck .
I am happy that you are ok , with previous experiencess , with purchasing coticules .
Nothing against Bart , he is very helfull , just my experience was bad and i dont like , all about , coticules and purchasing them . Sorry .