Thread: Hones/Procedure

I agree that a good natural is hard to beat. Maybe even impossible. In fact my synthetics are used more for kitchen knives than razors these days. However, bad/hard to work with naturals do exist. My coticule is a good example of this.

I lapped it flat, then polished to 1K and tried diluticot. Terrible shave, little better than shaving off my Norton 4K. Repeated a few times, same result. Polished the stone to 8k, or as close as I could get. Not much better. Burnished with 2,000 laps from a razor that was in need of touch up. Eliminated slurry and used it as a finisher off my synthetic hones to be sure the razor had a good shaving edge before touching the coticule. Still the shaves with water were terrible, but moving closer to the right direction about a 6K edge I'd wager. Tried with pure mineral oil - edge was a dud, 6K at best. Cut mineral oil 50/50 with mineral spirit: Eureka! An edge that shaves (but still barely passable).

What finally pushed mine into a place where I would call it a good finishing stone was coating the stone with Chrome Oxide, then buffing it with a cotton wheel. Now it makes a beautiful shaving edge. But there will be no diluticots or slurry work with this stone because the surface cannot be disturbed, and water still does not provide an acceptable shave. It must be used with 50/50 mineral oil and spirits, with very light pressure - less than weight of blade. Could you imagine a new fellow with no experience trying to dial in such a difficult stone to work with? How many hours of failed diluticots, unicots, honing up to a certain point with synthetics only to have his 'finisher' degrade his edge? How long would it take to figure out the issue was with the stone, not his own hands without the experience and tools necessary to determine where the problem lies?

Synthetic hones may not create as nice a shave, but they also don't come with the chance of getting a stone with this issue. Once lapped smooth and polished to maybe 1000 or 2000, they were ready to work. The only problem left to resolve was the skill of the person looking me in the mirror every morning.

I love my Naturals. I would say my Welsh slates, now polished just as much as my coticule, create an edge that tops my coticule in every metric. Keener, sharper, more comfortable...they're hard to match, I can't imagine anything beating them. But I don't recommend them to beginners, because there's no guarantee the next person will get stones that match the performance of mine. And they came with their own learning curve, though admittedly much smaller than my coticule.

I can not argue against - only one: Maybe he can try it nevertheless with a coticule ..
Honing is not (only) rationality, but much will, feeling and passion.

Might I suggest reaching out to a mentor you can meet up with locally? This way you may be able to try a number of hones and actually get advanced coaching on your technique, pressure, tests, etc. I know my time spent with Glen was invaluable in getting me started on the right track with honing. Since that time, I put down the Norton 4/8 combo and went all-in with Naniwa Super Stones and have no regrets whatsoever. Even with Glen's tutelage, I found I was using too much pressure and also had to work on more advanced X-strokes depending on the blade I was honing at the time.

Good luck in your honing quest. I think you will find it a very satisfying addition to this sport.

I too think coticules are to be avoided when starting out. After going through dozens of different stones, sold many regretted a lot of them, I finally believe that if I were to go way back to the beginning, I'd say you could succeed with just five stones, all synthetic. I would in hindsight buy these. A Naniwa chosera 1k. Naniwa superstones 3k, 5k, 8k and a Suehiro Gokumyo 20k. I hear people saying, 'dont spend a fortune on the 20k.' I reply with the fact it is easy to use. It's easier than the Naniwa superstone 12k to use, and will last a life time. IMHO, this combo suits both beginners and seasoned pros who also use this type of progression. The best thing about this progression is that you really won't need to do anything more. You won't need another stone as far as I'm concerned. At some stage in the future you might wish to dabble with natural stones, no problem doing that at all. But with what I have suggested your edge will be the equal of any, no matter what it is honed on. There are no edges out there that can say they are better than that of the Gok 20k consistently. I know that some utilise excellent natural stones, but the honers out there who have such nats, are seasoned and know what they are doing, so I am not denigrating naturals, I am giving a new honer a regime that will give top class edges consistently and for a long time.

Yes in the right hands a natural can be a great edge,,most likely in a new honers hand maybe not so. And I agree the 20k will rival most any edge out there, I do not believe that synthetics are not as good as naturals, because that's in the hands of the guy honing, I've got edges from synthetics that are as good as I've ever shaved with. And then again I had a super edge from Kyle off of his jnats.

As to money spent ask those guys how much they have in their naturals finding what their looking for versus one time buy of the 20k. I bet it's a pretty cheap buy in most instances, so as a new guy meet up with a mentor and stick with the synthetics for repeatable success, and get to know them, cause if your not getting good edges off them then your not doing it right which means the naturals won't be any better. 1,3,8,12, 20 almost a foolproof system and you can still use most of them even with naturals. Tc

Yep. The only reason I don't recommend synthetics beyond 8K is because you have to be able to get a good shave at that level, otherwise moving on is just wasted time.

And of course, once a person has a reliable, repeatable system where they consistently get good results, then it is time to figure out what you'd like to use as a finisher.

And the options are boundless. Shapton 16k & 30k, Gok 20, Naniwa 10k and 12k, Ice Bear 10k, Barber Hones, Arkansas Black/Translucent/True Hard, any number of Welsh slates, coticules, Thuris/Eschers, Jnats, a PHIG, Chrome Ox, FeOx, diamond pastes...you can even stop at 8K and be happy with that.

The hobby can be as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be. It can also be as simple or complex as you want it to be. 1 stone honing, 5 or more stone progressions, no paste or 3 progressions of pastes. I've even seen guys talking about leather strop progressions on top of all that.

Whatever makes your face (and your wallet) happy.

I would say for the newer honers out there, you don't need both the 12k Naniwa superstone and a Suehiro Gokumyo gok 20 k. As has been mentioned there is no point going to any stone if you are not able to shave with it off an 8k stone. But if the 8k is ok, then I can't see why you would need a 12k Naniwa. You can comfortably go from the 8k to the 20k. I personally go from the Naniwa superstone 10k to the gok 20k and I've been doing things this way for quite a while now, and I'm more than happy.

Lol, I will offer a dissenting opinion, 12k, Gok20k, jnat, just go for it!

Why? You can't master what you don't have.

Cheers, Steve

The 3/8 combo from Naniwa is perfect.... If you still feel a need for more, the 12K Naniwa SS would come next and you do NOT need any more, unless you are looking to play with naturals or something like that . After the 12K Naniwa SS, you can give a Natural or perhaps a Suehiro Gokumyo 20K a try if you wish..... it will be different than the 12K, not necessarily better perhaps, but different. Only you can decide if that is the way you wish to go. But... for starters... the 3/8 Naniwa is an excellent choice....

When I started with straights, I was stuck with the Norton 4/8K and while it was a fine hone.... I think I would have been better off with the Naniwa 3/8. Today, I own the complete series of Naniwa SS hones from 3K to 12K and I have a Naniwa 1K professional I occasionally use for dealing with damaged razors, something you need not concern yourself with as the 3K side of the 3/8 will do the job... just a wee be slower.

And for the fess up time, I also own 6 natural hones and I used to own Shapton Glass hones from 1K to 16K, but the latter were replaced by the Naniwa SS hones because of my personal choice... I just like the feel when honing on Naniwa hones.... they are so soft and sticky feeling.... Shapton glass hones are hard feeling, but they did work great, and would also be an excellent choice.

I am not opposed to quick, easy and consistent but a set of FLAT arkies in soft, hard, and black or translucent will provide you with as fine a shave as you can get with any of the synthetics. Arkies are consistent and easy, just not quick. The mastery is mostly learning to vary pressure and honing solutions plus doing lots of strokes.