Thread: Hone (nagura?) I.D. ?

Originally Posted by Marshal

Ordered a shoubudani from JNS. Ticked the box for nagura, because I figured I'd want one of those. This is what came with the stone:

So is this 3"x3" a monster nagura, or did I somehow end up with something else? Still pretty sure the order got mixed up, but I'm curious to know just what this thing is. Sorry about the pic quality, that's the best the auto focus wanted to do at the time.

My W.A.G. is it's a piece of Suita or Namito.
Ask the seller if you really want to know what it is.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

My W.A.G. is it's a piece of Suita or Namito.
Ask the seller if you really want to know what it is.

Not a half bad suggestion...I'll probably do that. I'm just impatient I guess, didn't want to wait for Maksim to get in Monday to find things out.

Originally Posted by sqzbxr

Here's my thread on the toxic inclusions: http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...ml#post1601266

Thanks for the heads up. I'll have to take a closer look at that stone. If it's not razor quality on top of being different from the one I picked out it'll definitely be making a return trip to JNS.

Well, it's a little early to say for certain. I'll have to double check that the stone is flat, get it sanded to 2k and polished with the nagura so I can do a test hone before I can say yea or nay. But my initial impression is that it seems to be be an OK stone. It does have little grey-ish black spots. But they aren't reflective/shiny, and I can't feel them when I run my finger across it.

I also took a blade that shaves well and slid it across the hone dry a few times. I didn't feel it catching anywhere, or any feedback that would indicate the blade was going over bumps. Just a smooth glassy trip across the hone's surface. The edge looked pretty good under magnification too, so preliminary checks seem to lean towards 'good rock.'

Originally Posted by Marshal

Well, it's a little early to say for certain. I'll have to double check that the stone is flat, get it sanded to 2k and polished with the nagura so I can do a test hone before I can say yea or nay. But my initial impression is that it seems to be be an OK stone. It does have little grey-ish black spots. But they aren't reflective/shiny, and I can't feel them when I run my finger across it.

I also took a blade that shaves well and slid it across the hone dry a few times. I didn't feel it catching anywhere, or any feedback that would indicate the blade was going over bumps. Just a smooth glassy trip across the hone's surface. The edge looked pretty good under magnification too, so preliminary checks seem to lean towards 'good rock.'

Jnats have all sorts of "inclusions" that help cutting speed. Black spots are called "goma" & can be a good or bad thing with razor stones. Yours sounds ok so far.

Max has had two versions of these types of nagura, the original which tended to smaller and thicker, and the current 'nagura extra' which are mostly larger and thinner. He's said somewhere at least in the past that they were aiiwatani or takashima but I cannot remember.

I have both but usually don't use them as finishing tomo though they are good stones. The earlier one I use to burnish my Kanoyama strops after cleaning and drying them once a year or two, or to burnish a reconditioned strop as an endpoint.

Cheers, Steve

That is a very nice stone, but as Steve said, rarely a finisher for me as well. Best used as very thin, almost trace slurry, if you're gonna finish on it. Have a play around, each one is different!

It is possibly a stone that may replace Mejiro, on certain softer steels. Would love to hear what some others who have tried it think about it.

To quote eKretz:
"A tomonagura is generally accepted as being any piece of finishing grade JNat used to raise a slurry on another finishing JNat stone. They don't necessarily need to be from the exact stone used as your finisher, though they can be. Generally it's better if they are at least slightly softer than the finishing stone, and ideally they are as fine. However, sometimes a slightly coarser Tomo will bring up awesome edges too. It's best to just try all that you have available to see which works best with any given hone. As with all natural hones, best results are arrived at through experimentation - or trial and error."

Fantastic advise! I know that the last few Shobu's he's had are particularly hard which is a good thing as you know when it comes to finishing a razor. I've tried all my stones at one time or another as slurry/nagura on your finisher. Like black thuringian, buttery smooth shave. Light green thuringian, same thing. Try everything to make slurries with, guaranteed you will find a couple that really shine. Or you could invest in a piece Asano grade Koma and be assured a great shave too. But it's not necessary.
Very nice looking finisher you have there Marshal!! Keep us updated!!

Originally Posted by Aerdvaark

Very nice looking finisher you have there Marshal!! Keep us updated!!

If I ever get the thing lapped I'll let you know what I think of it. 3 of the corners are low, and I'm half tempted to say to hell with it and use it as-is. It's giving my poor EZE- Lap diamond plate a run for it's money. I think it's safe to say it's up there with Translucent and Surgical Black Arkies in that regard.

Further testing shows this little fella, while hard as all get out, is nowhere near as hard as an Arkie. Been a while since I worked one of those over so I forgot just how hard they are. Good news is, loose grit SiC and a glass plate got this puppy flat and fairly polished in no time. Didn't take much on the 1K and 2K sand paper to get it where I wanted it. Few hundred laps with the tomo stone sent with made for a pretty decent final burnish.

Since it was ready to go, I went ahead and gave it a test run this morning. Took a Shapleigh Hardware Co. razor that I had actually honed up on the Kuromaku 12K and gave it a quick look over. Found one teeny little micro chip, but test shaved it anyway. Patch can off clean and effortless, so I decided this would make a good test razor. Worked up a thick milky slurry on the Shoubudani and got to work.

It was kind of interesting to see that hazy Kasumi edge form. I'd say it was reminiscent of what I produce using the Dragon's tongue. The nagura stone they sent with seems, to me at least, to be capable of middle grit up to pretty fine polish type honing. I say that because by the time I was done, the micro chip was gone and I really didn't spend a lot of time on it since I started with a good shaving 12K edge. Mostly it was fiddling around and seeing what's what.

When all was said and done, after a handful of pure water laps the edge looked...well about like it did when I started. Maybe even a little bit better. Not that it's the fairest of fair comparisons. I wasn't being particularly meticulous when I honed this razor up to 12K, I was just kind of killing time. So there may have been some errant stria left behind from previous stones, and of course the microchip I'd left in. But that probably wasn't the only one, just the only one I found during a quick check of the forward/toe half of the blade. The blade did get a little 'sticky' here and there, and that had me worried because I couldn't tell if it was water related sticktion, or teeny little inclusions wrecking my edge. Overall I'd say the feedback was kind of like the Kuromaku 12K. Just enough grittiness to tell work is being done, but still pretty smooth/glassy. Kinda makes me wonder if that's the sensation Shapton was trying to emulate with that hone series...

Inspection with the loupe didn't show any new chipping, just that the old ones had been worked away. Score one for the Shoubudani. For a natural to match a 12K polish is no mean feat either. 2 for 2. The shave - close, clean and comfortable. I didn't even strop it, just shaved straight off the hone to get a feel for it. The only reason I've got razor burn is paying more attention to how the shave feels than to actually shaving properly and letting my technique slip. Didn't catch or tug anywhere during the shave. I'd put the edge I created with this little fella right up there with the edges I make on my translucent Arkansas stones and finer Welsh slates. So that's 3 for 3, we have a winner.

This may not be the Shoubudani I picked out with the white cloudy coloring. But I like this little stone, he did me real good.