Thread: Quality Variation in Black Ark Stones

When Dan's brings their blocks to the saw room, they are certainly in large chunks.

Over the years I have had quite a few Arkansas stones and the past couple years have been using them exclusively to hone my razors which has taught me even more. I have a massive black Arkansas from Dans and it is top notch. As good as my vintage Norton translucents. I have never got a stone from Dans that I didn't love and am confident if I did they would make it right. now their Washita, although it can cut very fast, is not as high quality as vintage nortons. That is VERY clear to the point where you would think they are two different stones but they are both 99%novaculite and within the density of a Washita. I find the vintage Norton washitas surfaces are very consistently "peppered" with cutting spots whereas Dans seems to be clumped together. I think Dans sells the best quality Washita that they can but it is not close to a vintage Norton. I use them differently and am happy with them both for what they are.

One thought on why Norton still sells Arkansas stones and not Washita stones is that while the Washita prices have been steadily increasing due to a corner on that quality of a stone The Arkansas stones have not increased nearly as much. Partly because they are being sold by others at a top quality (like Dans) for reasonable prices. I wonder if Norton were the only ones with good quality Arkansas stones if they would not sit on them as well?

4 years ago I sold a lily white Washita slip stone for $19 on the bay. Not today. Today I would be surprised if I could find one and then it would more than likely be in the $35-40 range.

And then I went to the dan's site and drowned my sorrows in a 10x3x1 translucent from the specials page - I'd show a picture, but the new dan's site drops the listings as soon as you buy (they used to stay up for a while because they didn't have a cart system).


Awesome-I get an image of a lonely guy sitting at some seedy bar: "Hey bartender, pour me a 10x3 translucent. I'm trying to forget an old hone." Water on the side.

Originally Posted by Longhaultanker

When Dan's brings their blocks to the saw room, they are certainly in large chunks.

Nice - do you know what grade that block is, or are they not uniform? Someone who deals with norton told me that they waste enormous amount of stone in order to get clear stones. I'm not sure if I could find the old text that I read what I mentioned above, but that doesn't matter too much when you're showing a giant hunk of rock!

Originally Posted by DaveW

That then leads to the question of why they'd even produce natural soft and hard arks (which could come from other than the pike mine), and I don't know the answer to that. the market is broader for the trans stones (dental students, at least some, still get a finish stone for their tools, and you can sell small stones to work fishhooks, etc. The trans also makes a great finisher for knives after you've gone through the synthetics), but the softs, who knows? I wouldn't be surprised if they had more intermittent supply in the future or stopped production of natural stones due to the cost and waste involved in them (strangely, the old texts say that the washita comes out of the pike mine in huge chunks that have few flaws and can be easily processed into whetstones, but that is definitely not true about trans ark stones).

Maybe I'll write them sometime - not that anyone couldn't, but I think I could convince them I'm an enthusiast and that entertaining my questions is doing a good deed.

Cause guys like me & Steel still buy them. I picked up a set of chisels from Harbor Freight tonight, and didn't want to ruin any of my soft synthetics (or naturals for that matter). So the ones I got prepped were honed on Arkies cause I know I couldn't scratch those unless I tried. Maybe not even then. Soft, Hard, then Translucent.

Norton might waste a lot of rock trying to get perfectly clear stone. Folks do like their uniform coloring. But Dan's seems to have found a way to cut down on the waste:



True Hard stones - imperfectly colored stones that are every bit as dense as Translucent/Black stones. And every bit as fine in my estimation. This sharpens a razor every bit as well as any of my Translucent rocks. Fun fact: the translucence of that stone varies depending on where light is placed - in the dark black spot it's virtually opaque, in the grey bands light passes pretty easy. And coming from Norton's mine stone like that might well go to waste if they fuss too much over uniform coloration. Dan's used to sell them a few bucks cheaper too, but I think word has gotten out.

I have seen 8x3 multicolor nortons before, and I recall someone who was a dealer calling them and saying they wanted some more interesting and colorful stones for themselves.

In terms of what makes stones get discarded by norton, I think it's cracking. Dans doesn't tolerate any of that, either.

Personally, I like the true hard stones that aren't translucent, and those aren't to be confused with the borderline trans I mentioned earlier (norton brand). That stone was just lower density by a tenth or so than most trans stones, and coarser cutting - that's relative, of course, it was still a fine cutting stone. I have been lucky enough to get one colored stone, but then I sold it because I just do that from time to time sometimes. I wish I'd have kept it. it was a full 8x2x1 and I think I paid $80 for it. Density the same as my trans stones.

Yeah, cracking is definitely no good. Might be acceptable if sold as a second or something. I've got a small hard stone from Gatco that came a little cracked. I think it was damaged in shipping. The dealer gave me a few bucks off it, and it's been a decent knife/tool hone for work. Never ceases to amaze me how well it works in spite of the defect.

I wasn't expecting that rock to be translucent. Happy accident I guess. I originally assumed what Dan's calls 'True Hard' would be opaque. But I'm not complaining. I wanted a rock with personality, and this certainly has it. It'd be nice to be able to hand pick one, but I'm probably 1200 miles or so away from Dan's so I have to rely on luck a bit.

Hey Marshall, don't forget about me. Yes, Dan's does sell the True Hard for some less than Translucent and Hard Black. And I concur the True Hard is not one step behind the other two, as I've written on before with some dogmatism.

Here's my recently new True Hard, as referenced above.

Somewhat back on topic, I found this a neat looking banded brown rock in an ebay lot. The stone is translucent, I don't think it fits the Washita bill which is kind of what I presumed it was at first:



It also came with that little black Arkie, a mondo 12 x 2.5 x 1 Translucent stone, and the EZE Lap plate that I now use for flattening. I think it's actually a translucent stone and it illustrates the variance you were talking about earlier. I don't think it is quite as fine as my other Translucent Arkies, and it certainly seems to cut quicker on the side I haven't burnished as compared to the same on other Arkies I have. Not so much a 'Not what it's supposed to be' affair as the seller didn't advertise anything - just a lot of natural hones. I don't think they knew what they had. But not quite what I thought when I looked at the pics either.