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Thread: Poor newbie's hone set

  1. #21
    Junior Member Barbu's Avatar
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    Yes indeed, it does self slurry. Wasn't aware this was an issue for razors. 1k side much more than the 6k. Guess it's only good for chisels and knives

    So shaptons, coticules, Nortons and Naniwas seem to be the preferred options and my understanding is that there is no shortcut for the wallet when it comes to razor hones. I'll have to wait to get any of those in decent size (there are cheap coticules but they're tiiiiiiny)

    Dan's Novaculite stones are appealing, anybody else have experience with those? Not for finishing but for bevel setting and edge prep before Naniwa 12k.

    Again thanks everyone for chiming in.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    You can still work with it, it's just not ideal to finish with.

    Natural whetstone for soft ark to bevel set and dans stones to finish with.

    You can use the soft 1k that you have to set a bevel with, just flatten it from time to time.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbu View Post
    Yes indeed, it does self slurry. Wasn't aware this was an issue for razors. 1k side much more than the 6k. Guess it's only good for chisels and knives

    So shaptons, coticules, Nortons and Naniwas seem to be the preferred options and my understanding is that there is no shortcut for the wallet when it comes to razor hones. I'll have to wait to get any of those in decent size (there are cheap coticules but they're tiiiiiiny)

    Dan's Novaculite stones are appealing, anybody else have experience with those? Not for finishing but for bevel setting and edge prep before Naniwa 12k.

    Again thanks everyone for chiming in.
    There's a few of us here that love our Arkansas stones. Little bit of shameless self promo:

    http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...entures-4.html

    Post 35 goes into gross detail how to use a translucent Arkansas stone and a few slurry stones like a poor man's Jnat. Number 40 details setting a bevel on a new-to-me ebay find with nothing but a Soft, Hard, and True Hard Arkansas stone. Not a single synthetic hone used during post 40, and only a small chunk of one in number 35. Coticule rubbing stones can be found at SRD for 11 bucks. That's also where I got the Naniwa 800 I cut a chunk off of to make my 800 grit nagura. That cost 32 bucks, but well worth it even if not cut up and abused. And you can find Welsh Slate rubbing stones for 3 bucks on ebay. Well, might as well say $10 after shipping cause international shipping is pricey.

    But, point is bevel set to finishing is doable on a set of Arkansas stones.

    Honing a straight razor can be as expensive or cheap as you want it to be. I forget what a set of Shapton Glass stones run but I recall it being the most astronomical cost of Shapton, Norton, Naniwa, and King hones. A Naniwa set will set you back about $250 if I remember right (1/3/8/12K), Norton single grit 1/4/8K about $190 (Ball park same for Shapton Kuromaku 1/2/5/12K set). Norton combination stones about $130. A King 1/6 is around 30 bucks, their Ice Bear 8K another 80 bucks. Or you can get their single grit Ice Bear series in 1/4/6/8 for 160. I'd probably skip the 6K and save 30 bucks. These are what I tend to call 'the big four' and they're recommended because they're all fairly decent quality stones for straight razors that are uniform one to the next. Take an edge finished to 8K from any of the above and you should be able to shave comfortably with it. My Norton 1K 4K and 8K are the same as everyone else has. They also have a broad enough user base that many people here will have set of any of the above (or one each of a few sets) and someone with experience using those specific stones will be able to help you get your blade squared away with them.

    The Bluesun 3/8 I mentioned earlier is $24. Couple that with a King 1K for $15 or a Naniwa Traditional 1K for $30 and for 60 bucks + shipping you can get a razor shaving sharp. Classic King 1/6K for 30 bucks coupled with a good Cnat or pasted strop and you're off to the races. I've picked up a few barber hones here and there at 20 to 40 bucks a piece. Once your razor is shaving sharp a barber hone as all you need to maintain that. And some barber hones are fast enough you can do more than just refresh with them. I paid 20 bucks for my Swaty and it's been used to set bevels on top of normal barber hone duty.

    These are a little harder to recommend though. If you pick up the Cnat, you have to assess for yourself if it's a good razor stone unless someone with more experience is nearby and willing to give your rock a once over and assess it. I've only seen one review by one member on the Bluesun hones. I can't say for certain that all of them were manufactured to the same specifications, they may vary in performance from one hone to the next. There may be unforeseen longevity issues - I've read about cheaper water stones cracking/splitting under the stress of swelling and contracting as they soak in water then dry out. Most barber hones are 6K to 8K or more. I have experience with a 6 types, every one is A-OK to maintain a straight and would be all you'd need. But there are SO many brands out there. I can advise people with respect to those 6 hones, but if they ask about any other brands all I can answer with is:

    Not all of them were finishers. Some were mid grit, and some are just falling apart due to old age so it can be hit or miss. You'll find by and large that barber hone users are likely the smallest category, which is a little counter-intuitive at first. The one hone type designed specifically for use with straights is also low on the list of recommended hones. But if you step back and look at the big picture it makes sense.
    Last edited by Marshal; 08-15-2017 at 12:52 AM.
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  5. #24
    illegitimum non carborundum Utopian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlander View Post
    Not familiar with your stone, but I would think the 1k side would work to set a bevel. However going from a 6k to a 12k finisher is a big jump.
    Going from 1k to 6k is a much bigger jump than the one from 6k to 12k.
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    Junior Member Barbu's Avatar
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    Thanks Marshall, you saved me a headache playing with novaculite. I've decided to just try my Steelex 1/6 with very light touch and maybe reducing the soak time and finishing on the Naniwa 12k that's in the mail. After all the Steelex/Woodstock is more expensive than a King, I know it doesn't mean much but makes me wonder how good it is. I can't put it aside without triyng it at least once, I don't know if anyone has ever tried it on a razor. Somebody has to bite the bullet, right?
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  8. #26
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    I noticed it's a bit pricier too. King is sort of an outlier, but also proof that decent hones can be had for not a lot of money. As for the Steelex, I still can't say it's good or bad. I see reviews that are red flags to me, but at the same time online reviews are to be taken with a grain of salt. I've seen people reviewing things negatively that they clearly did not know how to operate or didn't understand. One of the negative reviews I read about the Steelex literally was a complaint that they expected 4 separate items and not a single 1000/6000 grit combination sharpening stone. They got what they ordered, and it functioned fine for their purpose, but there was one item not four and they felt jipped because words am hard. I can only imagine how many of those broken hones weren't broken until they were dropped, left out in the sun, near a camp fire, etc. Or how many of the stones that allowed large particles to be lifted up only did so because someone with a heavy hand was really going at it with a knife and tore the stone up.

    So it may well work, and work well. Like the saying goes, "Don't knock it til you've tried it."
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  9. #27
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    If you're looking for inexpensive go with film and a glass tile. Works well.
    I never bothered with anything above 8k until the natural stone bug bit. 8k then a pasted strop.
    Or go with a pressed felt and diamond sprays, is an option. Many ways to skin a cat.
    Old pair of jeans makes a decent poor man strop. I'd stiffen it a bit.
    No substitute for a proper strop though. It doesn't have to be expensive either. An Illinois or Herold are reasonable.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
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  11. #28
    Senior Member blabbermouth Kees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbu View Post
    Yes indeed, it does self slurry. Wasn't aware this was an issue for razors. 1k side much more than the 6k. Guess it's only good for chisels and knives

    So shaptons, coticules, Nortons and Naniwas seem to be the preferred options and my understanding is that there is no shortcut for the wallet when it comes to razor hones. I'll have to wait to get any of those in decent size (there are cheap coticules but they're tiiiiiiny)

    Dan's Novaculite stones are appealing, anybody else have experience with those? Not for finishing but for bevel setting and edge prep before Naniwa 12k.

    Again thanks everyone for chiming in.
    Just a few things. Indeed: no shortcuts when it comes to good quality hones. Synthetic barber hones are a cheap option. Swatys were recommended in a Dutch handbook for barbers, others are available as well. Good reviews can be found here: Barber Hone Reviews

    Most are by Modine who is a member here.

    Arkansas hones are very slow. I used to have a set of Smith's but sold them.

    As to the 1K/6K option: I don't have personal experience with those. They are more popular among the members of nassrasur.com, a German website I used to visit a more often. Especially the King 1K/6K: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DT1X9O Pretty wallet-friendly.
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    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr.

  12. #29
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbu View Post
    Thanks Marshall, you saved me a headache playing with novaculite. I've decided to just try my Steelex 1/6 with very light touch and maybe reducing the soak time and finishing on the Naniwa 12k that's in the mail. After all the Steelex/Woodstock is more expensive than a King, I know it doesn't mean much but makes me wonder how good it is. I can't put it aside without triyng it at least once, I don't know if anyone has ever tried it on a razor. Somebody has to bite the bullet, right?
    The steelex stone will be fine. Essentially, you're doing this:
    * you're going to learn the stone, and you'll be like the deer hunter who hunts with a rifle that shoots a 2" group. When you get good with the rifle, it's plenty accurate to spare. If it's a little loose, you might have to get used to its quirks
    * The other thing you could do is buy 10 sets of stones and be like the guy who takes a different rifle to the woods every time. His rifles are good, but if he doesn't have that much experience with each one, the first guy gets more deer and questions less in the woods

    The stones you have will be some kind of alumina, and closely graded. They will work well at what you find out that they do well.

    The fact that they're alumina means that while some folks may not like the gap between a 12-15 and 4-5 micron abrasive, the abrasive is strong enough to bridge it, and I'd expect that it's actually strong enough that it will be just as fast to make that jump (and spend some extra time on the 6k) as it would be to go through a progression.

    You might need something else to finish the edge. Technically, you can get a shaving edge off of almost anything, but you're really trying to get a comfortable shaving edge that's very keen. Lots of stuff will do that.

    If you tire of this stone, I'd keep the arkansas combo in mind. It's gentle on edges and can cut or burnish depending on how you use it, and the sharpness will rival anything natural unless a razor is soft (in that case, you don't want the razor).

    For now, it's better to be the guy in the first bullet point above, or on my day of randomness, as they say in bluegrass jams (beware of the guy who only owns one banjo - he probably knows how to play it pretty well). In woodworking with hand tools, they call it familiarity with tools, and it's a pretty strong thing if you don't let your head believe that you don't own 14 other things that you should have.
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  14. #30
    Senior Member Jlander's Avatar
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    ^^^^^
    Absolutely agree.

    I spent the first 10 yrs using a straight with only my grandfathers white and black Arkansas'. It was more time consuming but quite effective. I learned alot about those stones and that razor. It is just not what I would recommend today for someone just starting out and no-one to provide some hands-on teaching. There are so many options I did not have available then. Small town in rural West Texas didn't a big supply of stones in the 60's. But you play the hand your delt.
    Last edited by Jlander; 08-15-2017 at 02:05 PM.
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