Thread: Disapointing JNat results (sharp but neither smooth nor clean)

And this is the problem with the HHT. Small notches on a saw-toothed edge can pop hairs but they won't make for a comfortable shave. If you are seeing those notches at 30x, then don't bother with my suggestion of trying the 12k. It sounds like the problem is earlier in the progression. Keep at it and you'll sort it out!

Originally Posted by Nagura

I compared also the bevels to the bevels of the razors which I honed with the Naniwas.
The differences are quite hughe. The Naniwa bevels look much much keener to me.

Have you tried your J-Nat after Naniwa to see if the edge degrades or improves?

Originally Posted by Nagura

At the moment, I'm just not convinced that JNats can outperform Naniwas in terms of keeness and smoothness of shaves.

It is entirely possible that your hone is not a razor finisher, or your tomonagura is not a good match.
Truly suitable razor-finishing Jnats are not common at all. Most of the stuff you see in shops is prepolishers really.

Originally Posted by mainaman

Have you tried your J-Nat after Naniwa to see if the edge degrades or improves?

Without any doubt: The edge degraded. All razors were honed with the Naniwas before I tried the JNat. So, I can make the direct comparison.

Originally Posted by Nagura

Without any doubt: The edge degraded. All razors were honed with the Naniwas before I tried the JNat. So, I can make the direct comparison.

Yes, but your edges degraded after going up a full nagura progression if I understood correctly.

I suggest that you pick one razor that you know the best and bring in back up on whatever previous progression that you trust the most. Finish on the 12k and then strop and shave test it. After that, hone it again on just the base stone with water and then strop and shave test it again. If your base stone degrades the 12k edge, then Mainaman is correct and your hone is not a finisher.

If you find notches you should find out which stone caused them.
It could be the hone itself but could also be one of your slurry stones. Naguras too can have toxic inclusions and some lose some crumbs if you like from an unstable edge. I suggest you follow Utopians advice above. If the honzan is not the culprit follow the same procedure with the naguras to find out which one is to blame for your problems.

@Nagura you've got some good advice here, but if all fails and you want a second opinion, I am happy to help. You could send me your stone and a razor, I'll give it a shot at honing, and send it back. I am normally in Mannheim when in Germany.

Sadly though, my German language skills suck. I work there for about 6 months a year, and I work only in English.

Taking your stone to someone who can hone is good idea and can help you understand the stone more.

Originally Posted by mainaman

It is entirely possible that your hone is not a razor finisher, or your tomonagura is not a good match.
Truly suitable razor-finishing Jnats are not common at all. Most of the stuff you see in shops is prepolishers really.

100% agree with this. A lot of stones can finish razors in the right hands, but probably a fraction of stones sold as razor stones (if you just look at sellers listings) are really in the top group.

There are certain sellers who do really do a thorough test of a stone before classifying it, but you will pay for that "grading".

If there is no way for you to coax the same type of sharpness out of the stone as you'd get on a nani 12k, then you're not getting the results you should. In my experience, a good stone will step up the sharpness a little bit (not in sharpness felt, but in the quality of the shave), but the smoothness of the shave should be much better. Never worse than a synthetic.

If you are very capable with synthetic followed by crox, I wouldn't expect natural stones to surpass that sharpness level, but a good razor stone used properly should get you in the ballpark but without any harshness or weepers.

You don't have a cheap microscope do you? Even the cheapest USB hand held high magnification scopes (about $12) will show you damage that I suspect you're getting (in the form of the edge having some tooth or shiny "danglers" that are the result of rogue particles damaging an edge. If the damage is uniform, then the stone is a prepolisher. If it's not uniform (e.g., a burnished looking bevel with random large scratches here and there), then it's just not a very good stone.

Also agree with no-nagura. Nagura can have rogue particles in them, too. Good ones don't.

Now who was that guy that kept saying

"You are going to be hard pressed to beat a good finish on the Naniwa SS 12K for any amount of money"


Damn smart fella,,

You know how to use the naniwa you have yet learned what the J-nat can or can't do

Naniwa 12k then light slurry off only the Shobudani work it, own it, and see what happens..

Branch out from there, that gives you a baseline

If your location is convenient to the US, I'd be glad to assess the stone(s) and problem razor if you like, for return postage.

Cheers, Steve