Thread: washita confusion

I would agree with that for the most part, but in my experience the Washitas definitely cut faster than even soft Arks. It's not that they necessarily produce a coarser finish though. Since the Lily Whites are actually quite fine (but still fast cutting) they are often a favorite. #1s are not far behind at all though, and as we are dealing with natural stones, some #1s may be better than some Lily Whites. Many get around the fineness that occurs once the stones settle in by keeping one side somewhat freshly lapped and the other left alone to settle in, myself included.

I have shaved from a Washita with no issues but for me at least special techniques are necessary for a comfortable shave i.e. spine leading, (or backward to convention) honing strokes and a heavy linen stropping - and sometimes a few trips back and forth.

Originally Posted by eKretz

I would agree with that for the most part, but in my experience the Washitas definitely cut faster than even soft Arks. It's not that they necessarily produce a coarser finish though. Since the Lily Whites are actually quite fine (but still fast cutting) they are often a favorite. #1s are not far behind at all though, and as we are dealing with natural stones, some #1s may be better than some Lily Whites. Many get around the fineness that occurs once the stones settle in by keeping one side somewhat freshly lapped and the other left alone to settle in, myself included.

I have shaved from a Washita with no issues but for me at least special techniques are necessary for a comfortable shave i.e. spine leading, (or backward to convention) honing strokes and a heavy linen stropping - and sometimes a few trips back and forth.

I am a bit late and all has been said I think. Just my 2 cents. Without a doubt my favorites are my Lily White stones. In my experience they have all been extremely consistent in their particle placement. They also have the widest range. Fast cutting and a fine edge. Faster than my soft Arkansas and leave a much much finer edge. Rosy Red's (haven't seen a Ruby Red yet) are also very nice. A bit faster but they do not leave the edge quite at the level a Lily White does. The No. 1 is a work horse, even though the range isn't as large, since it is more economic I tend to abuse and experiment with my No. 1's a bit more. My seconds have been an inexpensive gamble that has resulted in some REALLY good stones for a nice price but they are a gamble as not all are great.
All that said, my "worst" pike/norton washita stone is absolutely amazing! I don't think you can go wrong. As said above, the smiths, Dans, Case, etc. washita's were more like a coarse or soft Arkansas which are really good stones too but they are noticeably different then the Pike/Norton Washitas.

I'd just like to share an experience I recently had while working on a chip carving knife. I was working on a drastic blade thickness reduction. Carbo stones to medium india and then I reached for one of my Washitas. I tried 2 vintage pikes and one no name but nothing felt right. Blade seemed to be skating and not singing like it should. The last stone I tried was just what I was looking for. An ancient, no name Washita with a blue streak. All stones were lapped identically. Different steel, different stone, different results. The other stones would have worked but I would have worked harder to get where I wanted. My 2 cents......Love me some Arkies....

I have had that experience also. Especially with some of the very hard or carbide containing steels that the Silica in these stones isn't much of a match for.

thanks again. thats exactly the info i was looking for.
concerning the difference between nowadays washitas like dan´s aso and the older ones: afaik the washitas are not quarried anymore since....? (long ago) because the mine where they came from belongs to norton and they decided it s not worth it.
so from what i know and i might be wrong but my research lead me to this: all newer "washitas" are arks, soft i assume.
thats one reason why i started this thread.

Originally Posted by eKretz

I have had that experience also. Especially with some of the very hard or carbide containing steels that the Silica in these stones isn't much of a match for.

I haven’t experienced this or at least haven’t noticed. I have honed many different alloys in both straight razors and knives. Vintage and new and, at least for me, I haven’t noticed a difference. I recently honed a Vanadium steel kitchen knife without issue. Maybe that’s not what you are talking about? Not sure.

Oh they can still put in a little work, but if you try removing much steel you'll be there a very long time without a whole lot of progress. A modern synth will absolutely destroy a natural stone for heavy cutting on some of the tougher steels. The Washitas and Arks can still put a finishing touch on most steels though. There are certain steels that even synths won't cut very well as far as heavy work. These are things like High Speed Steels and S30V, etc. at very high hardness levels - and even when they do cut the edge will be pretty ragged on the microscopic level if using a coarser stone, with a lot of pulled out carbides. I recently made a razor from HSS and a Chosera 1k would barely touch it when I was setting the bevel. It just skated on a Washita. I ended up using diamond plates and that worked great.

Originally Posted by eKretz

Oh they can still put in a little work, but if you try removing much steel you'll be there a very long time without a whole lot of progress. A modern synth will absolutely destroy a natural stone for heavy cutting on some of the tougher steels. The Washitas and Arks can still put a finishing touch on most steels though. There are certain steels that even synths won't cut very well as far as heavy work. These are things like High Speed Steels and S30V, etc. at very high hardness levels - and even when they do cut the edge will be pretty ragged on the microscopic level if using a coarser stone, with a lot of pulled out carbides. I recently made a razor from HSS and a Chosera 1k would barely touch it when I was setting the bevel. It just skated on a Washita. I ended up using diamond plates and that worked great.

Interesting. I guess I don’t own a knife or razor like that. I figured the Vanadium knife would have been pretty hard steel. I didn’t have any problems but it must not have been steel like you are talking about. I’m sure someday I will run into something similar but I just haven’t yet. Thanks.