Thread: 1 k vs 4 k

Hi! I’m relatively experienced when it comes to shaving, but honing, is a new chapter for me, and right now, it’s causing me some trouble.

I’m shaving with a Dovo Bismarck blade.
Hones are as follows: 1 k Chosera, 4K/8k norton.

All right, so here is my major problem.

After practising x-strokes and the circle method. I’m getting my knife nice and sharp(cutting off arm hair) off of my Chosera. However, when I move on to my norton 4K, and follow up with the exact same methods, my knife becomes dull. Went back and forth on those several times.

Its driving me nuts.

I flattened all stones. Yet it feels like my Chosera is rather smoother than my 4K. But that might just be the material they are made of.

But... what am I doing wrong??



Sincerely,

Gustav

Welcome to the forum Gustav. Rest assured that having these types of problems when you start to learn to hone is not unusual. It might not be a good idea to learn to hone on nice new Dovo Bismarck because you can put a lot of wear on a razor during the learning process. I'd consider getting a low cost used razor to learn on.

That said, it is difficult to say what you may be doing wrong. It would be better if you could post a good clear photo of the blade so we can see the bevel and edge so people might be able to see what is happening.

Bob

Is the knife stainless steel?

Could be that it's sloughing metal rather than creating shavings. Stainless is a very different animal to sharpen especially if it's a softer grade.

If you want a cheap test blade have a look for something in carbon steel. Opinel make a range of carbon pocket knives that will take an 8K edge without a problem.

https://www.opinel.com/en/pocket-kni...teel/n8-carbon

https://www.amazon.com/Opinel-Degree...A1CKU3V214GMUP

[QUOTE=Guswolter;1793057]After practising x-strokes and the circle method. I’m getting my knife nice and sharp(cutting off arm hair) off of my Chosera. However, when I move on to my norton 4K, and follow up with the exact same methods, my knife becomes dull. Went back and forth on those several times.
/QUOTE]
Gustav-I had the same problem with the same hones early on with a number of razors. First of all, yes, that Chosera 1k is VERY smooth for a 1k; you have the standard-setting bevel-setter, so no worries there. But if you're losing the edge at 4k, maybe skip the circles until you get a better feel for your pressure and progress, or just don't do them at all past 1k (many/most don't). Also, are you lightening up the pressure as you go up the ladder through finer and finer grits. Seriously, that is where most beginners go wrong: once you have that bevel set, you are just refining it up the grits, with that Norton 4k being your serious mid-range workhorse. If you can do a few sets of, say 10 strokes, gradually decreasing pressure until you have just the weight of the blade, you should seem improvement. Also, try a stropping session of 50 on leather after each stone to max out or "set" your results off of that stone. Then you can flip it over and do the same very light finishing strokes on the 8k side. If you've done everything right, and followed up with a proper stropping, that Norton 8k edge provides a fine shave! Let us know how it goes! Aaron

Originally Posted by Guswolter

it feels like my Chosera is rather smoother than my 4K.

I've never owned a Norton 4k, but some of them reportedly have to be lapped quite a bit to get past some coarse grit.

I too would skip the circles after the 1k.

Originally Posted by bluesman7

I've never owned a Norton 4k, but some of them reportedly have to be lapped quite a bit to get past some coarse grit.

I do not use Norton stones, but I have heard the same comment. From the OP's description of the 1K being smoother than the 4K, some additional lapping on the Norton might be warranted.

I don't know if lapping is the issue. to the touch your norton is always going to feel more coarse than the chosera.
Why? I have absolutely no idea. but I remember having the same confusion when I bought those stones and started using them in my progression.
The initial lapping of the norton should have gotten you well past any contamination that the stone may have had. I would keep working with different strokes and see how it goes. Nortons (in my experience) require a very light touch otherwise they start chipping the blade. So if you don't already, get yourself a magnifying glass and see if that may be the issue.

My first advice is find someone within driving distance to show you the ropes on honing. You will learn more in an hour face to face than you will in a month online.

The "skin" must be lapped away from Naniwa and Norton stones.

Circles are for removing bevel material to get the cutting edge to the stone. Once there, you then have to quit circles and go to back and forth strokes. My preference is the x stroke. No pressure after you have bevel set, just he controlled weight of the blade on the stone. Get yourself some sort of magnification of at least 20x so you can see what is going on at the edge. Many use a jewelers eye loop. You have good stones, you just have to learn the skills to see what those stones can do.

Put your location in your member ID so we can assist you in finding a honing mentor.

Originally Posted by ScottGoodman

My first advice is find someone within driving distance to show you the ropes on honing. You will learn more in an hour face to face than you will in a month online.

The "skin" must be lapped away from Naniwa and Norton stones.

Circles are for removing bevel material to get the cutting edge to the stone. Once there, you then have to quit circles and go to back and forth strokes. My preference is the x stroke. No pressure after you have bevel set, just he controlled weight of the blade on the stone. Get yourself some sort of magnification of at least 20x so you can see what is going on at the edge. Many use a jewelers eye loop. You have good stones, you just have to learn the skills to see what those stones can do.

Put your location in your member ID so we can assist you in finding a honing mentor.

This. The skin referred to is something like 1/16" thick. I can never remember exactly, but it comes rough as all unholy hell and needs a decent amount of work to get it in working shape. Once it's there, it's a good stone.

It's going to feel different than the Chosera, even when they're in working form they have a gritty feel. They're aggressive and quick, and depending on the condition of the blade can be used to set a bevel without having to touch a 1K stone.

If I were to take a stab at what you're doing wrong (aside from maybe not having the worthless bit of stone lapped off) it would fall to 2 things. First - pressure. Less is more. You can start off with a little pressure while cutting the bevel, but you want to lighten up as you work on the bevel setter. By the time you leave it you should be using weight of the blade only. Going forward you should still be using little to no pressure.

The second would be not having the bevel set. Chances are the 2 planes are not meeting fully, there may or may not be dings or micro chips that need to be worked out. If you aren't using magnification you're literally honing blind. A cheap 20 or 30x jeweler's loupe is enough to get you going.

You mentioned a knife...are you honing your Dovo, or are you practicing honing on a knife? I ask because honing a razor and honing a knife are similar but still different disciplines. I knife just has to cut. A razor has to do that comfortably so it doesn't feel like your hair is being torn out by the root and your face isn't on fire when the shave is done.

I read Knife as knife. It didn't even occur to me that it was or could be his razor.

I've got a dovo bismark modern production, and it will take an 8K+ edge without any problems. It's also very easy to hone.

You will need 1 layer of tape, This is to protect the gold wash on the spine. And depending on the file work you may also need 1 layer of tape stropping as the file work can sometimes be sharp enough to drawn lines in a strop.

The razor itself is pretty easy to hone, There is no stabiliser to catch on the stone, and the edge is very near straight and doesn't require any fancy honing techniques. A very slight X stroke is better than a straight stroke. You should not need any pressure at all.