Thread: Crumbling Steel on Practice Razor

More than one of the beaters I practice on suffer from crumbling edges. Old vintage blades. No traces of corrosion, just crumbling. Can this be honed through to better steel or just the nature of the beast?

Hard to say without pictures. If the razors have a lot of hone wear, the bevel angle could be narrow enough to cause good steel to crumble. I would start with one or two layers of electrical tape on the spine and reset the bevel. Keep an eye on the tape for wear, and change it when it first becomes visible - the idea is to maintain the geometry of the fresh tape.

I’ve had that happen on quite a few vintage razors. The bevel has a grey appearance sometimes. You can usually hone through it and find good steel. Happy honing!

It is hard to say what a vintage blade has been through. I did learn to hone on vintage blades, however most of those were NOS. When learning to hone I though it made sense to start with the very best blades possible to remove as many variables as I could.
Even on nice old vintage blades with no corrosion and no wear or geometry issues pressure can also be a killer and cause issues. I also think a lot of new people read through a lot of the old tape no tape debate issues and ponder it. Tape vs. No tape really is a debate for people that already know how to hone. New guys have a very high tendency to put far too much pressure on the spine and cause it to wear very quickly. My general opinion is that all new honers should use tape. The experienced guys that can do a full hone progression without wearing through the tape have the option, as always, your mileage may vary.

I find it odd that you have multiple vintage razors with edges that crumble and without any rust on or near the bevel. The odds of one person winding up with multiple razors all displaying the same issue must be pretty high against.

Could it be what you are honing with and how you hone? What hones are you using and how high a grit do you finish on. I guess it is possible to get a crumbling edge by using too much pressure on a very fine grit finishing hone.

Bob

On edges that crumble I usually raise the spine off a 320 DMT hone by at least 25 degrees and do a series of 1/2 x-strokes until I feel I'm on good steel then add at least one layer of tape depending on the level of hone wear and basically start from scratch on the bevel, this almost always works but I've had a few exceptions

Thanks for the info gentlemen. I set the bevels using an India stone and went through a progression of Arkies. I've tried finishing on Arkies and Cotis. Edge will look great under a scope and tree top like crazy. I'm using minimal pressure after bevel set. I assume a spine wear issue would present itself as an overly wide bevel? I'm not seeing this on all the flakers. No sign of warpage. The 2 that I really want to use are a Landers Frary and Clark universal and a Columbia Cutlery that is not a full hollow grind. I notice the chipping after trying them. I've tried 3 times with the Columbia and edge goes each time. Yes, the Columbia has spine wear which to my untrained eye does not appear excessive. The Landers is really nice and has minimal. I think I'll try taping the Columbia and see what happens. Thanks again, I now have some things to try. Certainly sounds like too thin of an edge.

The India could very well be causing your issue. I have tried using them and they caused chipping for me on hollow grinds. Not as much on a thicker grind but I would recommend either using a different bevel setter or wearing the surface of the India down with some 1000k+ sandpaper or higher grit SIC. Also watch the edges of those stones. If they haven’t been beveled or lapped they can have chips and do some damage to your edge. Without being there or seeing pictures I would bet that is it.

Originally Posted by Steel

The India could very well be causing your issue. I have tried using them and they caused chipping for me on hollow grinds. Not as much on a thicker grind but I would recommend either using a different bevel setter or wearing the surface of the India down with some 1000k+ sandpaper or higher grit SIC. Also watch the edges of those stones. If they haven’t been beveled or lapped they can have chips and do some damage to your edge. Without being there or seeing pictures I would bet that is it.

I also think this is the case, I use my India only on my kitchen knives as it's very aggressive

Steel beat me to it, I was going to suggest a higher grit stone. I have found in some of my vintage blades my 1k is too much and my 2k seems to work better. Not sure what an India oil stone rates in grit but I'd try something a bit finer.