Thread: Natural hone for setting the bevel?

Originally Posted by aaron1266

Now we are entering the bevel setting stones or the coarse grit artificial stones. What's the difference?. There is one. The one and only: It all started when someone being a "traditionalist" wanted to know about opinions about natural hones for setting bevels. Not about contents in vanadium, manganese, etc… An I can wonder about the question: Some pride needs to be fulfilled like a japanese honer which spends at least 10 years of his life learning to hone a sword that takes from him at least six months of his life. We are fans of straight razors an there are people that can do what we dream what we think we can't do just because we have not the will or the time. I DO, and the results are in my smiling face no matter the contents of silver or dirt in a steel I choose to shave my ugly facial hair. Thank you Solingen and ALL those craftsman that worried about nothin but making a manmade tool we enjoy today all the way to at least 70 years without any elephant talk that sounds like false pride. And yes, I have purchased Dovo and Boker.

...From the dawn of time, like say 5000-6000 years ago when metal became a thing we sharpen and hone that metal. We started with natural stones each with different speed, particle size etc. found other natural stones, found out that we can shave if we go from coarser to finer... fast forward to last couple of centuries.
Quality of steel went waaay up, know-hows became a science, we have the emergence of man made stones because when say you get a car, polishing its body with a Pyrenees sandstone/soft Arkansas before painting it.... kind of doesn't sound right (sandpaper, I know, but still, not to mention wars and steel, I'm avoiding it on purpose), and we have them today because they save us time, and they won't run out.
As for steel, yes, there was mysticism in the past and they knew how to make it one way or another, but now it's science.
It's not about shaving our face! It's about planes not falling, cars weighting less and not breaking when going with 60mph 100km/h for us non US people etc.
The idea that "wow if I add that in the alloy, will it get better?" is far from new. And we have overdone it with knives and fancy shmancy alloys. Only, for every thing we add and make it fancier, there is some other thing we are trying to get raid of, like sulfur and phosphorus, that make steel useless, for out purposes.
They do have their uses, but not for us who like edges and toughness.
So, it's not that "I have a razor 150 years old and I'm satisfied with it, so, anything extra is useless". These new alloys have actual uses in the world edges aside.
They just get used for that too, for a "niche" market of people with more money than they need OR use their tools non stop every day. You are a chef. You fillet 400 fishes in a day, that's your job after all. Would you use a 0.50c knife? How long will it take, and how long will it take to maintain it every single darned day? You pay something more, you get something with them fancy elements, and you do your job faster, better. And you pay more for it.
I'm a farmer. I can use pruners that cost 5 euros, but they won't last a week. If I do pay however 50 euros for one, it will last half a year. Which one would you choose if you were me? Same with my saws.
That's the (or one of, if nothing else) meaning behind these new fancy steels. Not the knife I show on youtube at how awesome it is for cutting half a ton of paper without losing its edge. It's for the guy who cuts 1000 fish (or tomatoes for the vegans) without the knife losing its edge.

Originally Posted by Vasilis

...From the dawn of time, like say 5000-6000 years ago when metal became a thing we sharpen and hone that metal. We started with natural stones each with different speed, particle size etc. found other natural stones, found out that we can shave if we go from coarser to finer... fast forward to last couple of centuries.
Quality of steel went waaay up, know-hows became a science, we have the emergence of man made stones because when say you get a car, polishing its body with a Pyrenees sandstone/soft Arkansas before painting it.... kind of doesn't sound right (sandpaper, I know, but still, not to mention wars and steel, I'm avoiding it on purpose), and we have them today because they save us time, and they won't run out.
As for steel, yes, there was mysticism in the past and they knew how to make it one way or another, but now it's science.
It's not about shaving our face! It's about planes not falling, cars weighting less and not breaking when going with 60mph 100km/h for us non US people etc.
The idea that "wow if I add that in the alloy, will it get better?" is far from new. And we have overdone it with knives and fancy shmancy alloys. Only, for every thing we add and make it fancier, there is some other thing we are trying to get raid of, like sulfur and phosphorus, that make steel useless, for out purposes.
They do have their uses, but not for us who like edges and toughness.
So, it's not that "I have a razor 150 years old and I'm satisfied with it, so, anything extra is useless". These new alloys have actual uses in the world edges aside.
They just get used for that too, for a "niche" market of people with more money than they need OR use their tools non stop every day. You are a chef. You fillet 400 fishes in a day, that's your job after all. Would you use a 0.50c knife? How long will it take, and how long will it take to maintain it every single darned day? You pay something more, you get something with them fancy elements, and you do your job faster, better. And you pay more for it.
I'm a farmer. I can use pruners that cost 5 euros, but they won't last a week. If I do pay however 50 euros for one, it will last half a year. Which one would you choose if you were me? Same with my saws.
That's the (or one of, if nothing else) meaning behind these new fancy steels. Not the knife I show on youtube at how awesome it is for cutting half a ton of paper without losing its edge. It's for the guy who cuts 1000 fish (or tomatoes for the vegans) without the knife losing its edge.

Mastro Livi, is that you? Can you spare some razor to make myself worthy?. How about some shame that truly explorers like Charlie Lewis and others are doing to this dying business?. Yes. Some people have had not enough spending a lot ot money buying Wade and Butchers, they must praise some false idols! I wonder what Lynn must think about this shameful arguments!.

No. I stand with my only argument: Straight razors are tools and as tools, we do the only thing we do with all things that belong to the past: We take care as needed and nothing else. Those devices are not new and their persistence says only one thing: They work!. Nothing more, nothing less.

And, please, No Straight razor has ever killed anyone, not when you (et al.) try to put all those science into Sweeney Todd… hahahaha


So sad that the main theme is lost forever… Is is not the intention of Straight Razor Place (now Palace) to enjoy a shave with all that entails, no matter the cost but ultimately simply be informed?. Really informed?. I wonder…!

Originally Posted by aaron1266

Mastro Livi, is that you? Can you spare some razor to make myself worthy?. How about some shame that truly explorers like Charlie Lewis and others are doing to this dying business?. Yes. Some people have had not enough spending a lot ot money buying Wade and Butchers, they must praise some false idols! I wonder what Lynn must think about this shameful arguments!.

No. I stand with my only argument: Straight razors are tools and as tools, we do the only thing we do with all things that belong to the past: We take care as needed and nothing else. Those devices are not new and their persistence says only one thing: They work!. Nothing more, nothing less.

And, please, No Straight razor has ever killed anyone, not when you (et al.) try to put all those science into Sweeney Todd… hahahaha


So sad that the main theme is lost forever… Is is not the intention of Straight Razor Place (now Palace) to enjoy a shave with all that entails, no matter the cost but ultimately simply be informed?. Really informed?. I wonder…!

Offending me serves no purpose.
And it seems you did not click the Wikipedia link about the Century Of Self documentary otherwise you wouldn't give me this answer.
Yes, -some- of us are willing to pay extraordinary sums for razors just for the brand, or for stones for the stamp or place of origin. Some might even hoard them. Or anything that has more demand than supply, basic economics. I disagree with "our" attitude, a razor that shaves nicely is a good razor and that's it' I do have a W&B from a trade and a Maruka because the seller did not see the stamp; I contacted him to return it and he told me "what's done is done, keep it". I still feel bad about it, and since then I became a regular customer, but that's another matter.
I hate the fact that prices for stuff we don't truly need or have actual alternatives that produce the 100% same results get that overpriced, but that's how our world works. And want it or not, you will no matter what come into contact with such commodities. But we are part of this world, and hating it doesn't change a thing.
You are also right, if I understood correctly, that a lot of old crafts are dying and we, as a whole, try to find ways that make people, or even worse machines, do the thing humans did once that required extraordinary amounts of training. Although, in some cases, that's good (knowledge, medicine, science... many cases actually; we are alive right now because of one reason or another we survived, because of this)
But from what I see, your purpose was not a constructive conversation, so, I'm sorry I'm a fool trying to take part in it.

I must be clear on this and everything else: I mean no offense. If you feel like that, I must apologize. I have apologized twice today, I will not do it no more because it is how I am. I mean what I say but IS ONLY MY OPINION.

I must add: It seems that I am not expressing myself clearly. It seems that you are tracking every opinion I made in the whole site, but nothing that matters in here, in this very topic. It seems also, that you are taking this as a personal matter as you and I are no english speakers. This is the war about nothing!! HEHEHE.

As a side note, I must say that I love Evángelos Odysséas Papathanassíou music…

"México le debe un buen a Grecia, desde antes de la declaración de independencia de los Estados Unidos…"

No need for ad hominem discussions fellas, I know we're here with a shared interest in everything straight razors and are very passionate about it

Sorry but, at least from myself, I was not pushing any blame on anyone… That is not "ad hominem"!. And I must be shure, Vasilis, being greek must know better about that argument. Anyway… As said in The Godfather: "we are not animals!". hehehehe.

And then there is Vangelis…

Originally Posted by aaron1266

Sorry but, at least from myself, I was not pushing any blame on anyone… That is not "ad hominem"!. And I must be shure, Vasilis, being greek must know better about that argument. Anyway… As said in The Godfather: "we are not animals!". hehehehe.

And then there is Vangelis…

I know we are as far as from the topic as we can get, but it's fine I must have misunderstood, my fault. It is the the passion for the hobby, happens to all of us to a degree in any case, no hard feelings