Thread: Scratchy Jnat finisher??

Hello,

I been reading up all the info I can about Jnat finishing stones. One day I will own one. What does the term scratchy stone mean? I read somewhere that if a finisher is scratchy then it can't be used to finish with clear water only. I'm assuming that scratchy isn't a good thing??

i think this is a very subjective term. could be from people lapping there stones at a very low grit(i.e 220,320 or 400) which can cause a grabbing feeling when honing almost like your still taking off metal but its not. My Ozuku acts very weird but I don't get this anymore since I started to hone my jnat when lapping. what I mean by that is I will start with a 220 but extremely light pressure... you don't want to take off too much stone... I then move to a progression 600,1k,4k,8k and sometimes 16k depending on how I feel. the hone basically turns into this beautiful piece of glass. actually more like a marble. I love it! Jnats are certainly something you will enjoy

Originally Posted by CastleShave

i think this is a very subjective term. could be from people lapping there stones at a very low grit(i.e 220,320 or 400) which can cause a grabbing feeling when honing almost like your still taking off metal but its not. My Ozuku acts very weird but I don't get this anymore since I started to hone my jnat when lapping. what I mean by that is I will start with a 220 but extremely light pressure... you don't want to take off too much stone... I then move to a progression 600,1k,4k,8k and sometimes 16k depending on how I feel. the hone basically turns into this beautiful piece of glass. actually more like a marble. I love it! Jnats are certainly something you will enjoy

I have read that some finish stones can't be used with clear water to finish and some can. I've also heard of the term when honing on a hard finisher as velvety smooth or non scratchy. Is it possible to get a 9+ stone and a matching Tomo that's not scratchy?

so far I have only seen or heard of Jnats working with water, some people choose to use oil, glycerine, shaving cream etc... all Jnats can work with water but once oil is used ive heard you must stick to it because it seeps into the surface of the stone. when buying a Jnat number one thing to know is that all of them are different. it does not matter if they are both from the same strata, each stone has its own minute differences from one to the other. number one thing you want from a Jnat is feedback. I use this an indication of where I am with the razor. My Ozuku is rated 5+ which I would assume is a 9+ just on a different scale. mine is not "scratchy" per say. but I have to admit I may have used that reference in the beginning before I started lapping the way I do now. I think this is something you may be able to get rid of by lapping with a higher grit stone.

It means it may have hard particles that scratch the bevels and possibly damage the edge. Sometimes such particles are found in the lines some stones have. If you buy from a reputable source you'll not have to deal with that issue.

Originally Posted by Southbound

Is it possible to get a 9+ stone and a matching Tomo that's not scratchy?

Of course you can but you will pay top dollar.

Scratchy Jnats are more of a concern for the knife & sword polisher who wants a cosmetic finish on the blade faces.

Scratches can come from inclusions in the stone or a hard stone that requires a soft touch that a beginner does not have.

Many of the newer mined Oozukus can be scratchy but unless they are excessive it's not really an issue for razors as you should only be concerned with the edge & not a cosmetic polish.

Originally Posted by mainaman

It means it may have hard particles that scratch the bevels and possibly damage the edge. Sometimes such particles are found in the lines some stones have. If you buy from a reputable source you'll not have to deal with that issue.

Alex and Takeshi have a solid name with stones. When I do buy I will buy from a reputable vendor Like them.
They have different ways of rating them. Takeshi is a gent I have bought several strops. He doesn't have anything over 8.9.at the moment. I'm confused about the ++ thing. I've read that Takeshi has had 9.2 and 9.4 stones in the past. So what does 9.2 and 9.4 equal to on the "+" scale? On Alex's site he will tell you when a particular stone will finish with only clear water. I've heard of stones that are 9+++ usally scratchy. So it it possible to get a 9++ stone or 9+++ without being scratchy? So if you can finish on clear water does that indicate that the stone is not scratchy?

Originally Posted by Southbound

Alex and Takeshi have a solid name with stones. When I do buy I will buy from a reputable vendor Like them.
They have different ways of rating them. Takeshi is a gent I have bought several strops. He doesn't have anything over 8.9.at the moment. I'm confused about the ++ thing. I've read that Takeshi has had 9.2 and 9.4 stones in the past. So what does 9.2 and 9.4 equal to on the "+" scale? On Alex's site he will tell you when a particular stone will finish with only clear water. I've heard of stones that are 9+++ usally scratchy. So it it possible to get a 9++ stone or 9+++ without being scratchy? So if you can finish on clear water does that indicate that the stone is not scratchy?

I have no idea what the 9.2 or 9.4 means, until a clear definition is presented for rankings. For razors you want a stone does not self slurry and is fine enough to produce keen shaving edge.
On the 1-5 scale typically a lvl 5 stone is considered good for razors. 5+ or more just usually means harder compared to the standard which is lvl 5. A stone to be fine, a very fine stone at lvl 4.5 will produce superb shaving edges just fine. To sum it up there are several factors to consider in regards to a J-Nat.

A very hard stone usually benefits from using a softer tomonagura and working the slurry well. The scratches that may appear may be artifacts from previous grit levels or contamination as well but in general honing with slurry should take care of that.

Originally Posted by Southbound

Alex and Takeshi have a solid name with stones. When I do buy I will buy from a reputable vendor Like them.
They have different ways of rating them. Takeshi is a gent I have bought several strops. He doesn't have anything over 8.9.at the moment. I'm confused about the ++ thing. I've read that Takeshi has had 9.2 and 9.4 stones in the past. So what does 9.2 and 9.4 equal to on the "+" scale? On Alex's site he will tell you when a particular stone will finish with only clear water. I've heard of stones that are 9+++ usally scratchy. So it it possible to get a 9++ stone or 9+++ without being scratchy? So if you can finish on clear water does that indicate that the stone is not scratchy?

Alex Gilmore is an excellent source for Jnats. He is very patient and talks to beginners. A feature that is very scarse in the other retailers. For instance I bought my awesedo from Japanesenaturalstones.com and maksim responded to 1 email I sent him and never heard from him again. He has excellent products but communication is not there. Where as in my expierence Alex will coach you through what you want out of the stone and your best option. Very decently priced I might add.

I have gone thru lots of JNATS and finally am down to just two, the term you refer to is a stone that releases large garnets/particles but in order for a stone to do this it either has inclusions that are toxic or is what can been classed as a mid grit JNAT.

As stated if you are looking for a good finisher guys like Alex Gilmore are great to work with, you can find him here or contact him at Japan Stone, you can discuss you budget and he will pick a rested stone and supply you with 1-2 matched tomo naguras but just because he provides you with a quality JNAT does not guarantee success from jump start you as the end user have to put in the time and that means “ Hone, Shave, repeat “ and just keep doing that, also don’t try to go from say a 1k or 4k to finisher until ou have mastered the finish process as you will just be running in circles.