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Thread: Advice on lapping plates

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclid440 View Post
    So, a word of caution so you don’t waste a lot of time or drive yourself crazy, those stones either will finish, or they won’t.

    Few can improve a 10 or 12k edge. Better than honing identical razors, pick your best shaver and hone it on the 5 stones, to find which stones are finishers. Then experiment with the finishers, the rest are paper weights.

    For me, a natural finisher can improve a 12k edge or I am not interested. Learning a Natural stone is a process, you have to learn the stone, to squeak out its potential. Some give it up, some make you work.
    Thank you, good advice!

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclid440 View Post
    Better than honing identical razors, pick your best shaver and hone it on the 5 stones, to find which stones are finishers. Then experiment with the finishers, the rest are paper weights.
    I've been mulling this over, and I'm wondering how best to get the ball rolling. As a start, I've been lapping one side of the stones with 600 wet and dry, and the other side with 1000. Where there is an obvious difference between the two sides of the stone, as there is with several of them, I choose the finer side for the 1000. Then I'm thinking that first I would try honing on the smoother side of the stone unburnished and see how it goes, and if not satisfactory then I can burnish it and try it again.

    Does that sound like a reasonable approach?

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    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    Maybe, that is the problem /frustration with any natural and more so with Chinese Naturals especially the newer stones, they vary wildly in performance. The Original stones sold years ago seemed to be much more consistent, and even then, from the same distributor there was a marked variance in performance.

    A natural stone can vary in performance from side to side as you are apparently experiencing.

    You can try using the side that feel finest, but feeling is not always an indicator. You will just have to try them. Once flat, smoothing goes quickly.

    I assume you are just smoothing with 600-100? You will go through a lot of sand paper if not. You should flatten them on 60 grit Silicone Oxide and a steel cookie sheet first, then smooth working up the grits to 600 paper.

    And as I stated before, do not be surprised if any of them do not improve a 10k edge. Some may, but most are over rated. None perform like a good Hard Ark.
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  5. #44
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    Just so you and others understand the process, we lap stones to make them flat so they can be smoothed.

    If a stone is uneven and has depressions that have never touched a lapping grit or steel, as the surrounding stones wears, those pockets become exposed to the steel we are trying to put the finest edge on.

    How much does it take to mar an edge, one single grit?

    So first lap the stone as flat as possible, then polish it smooth. Once smooth, dead flat is not such a big deal, as the steel will ride on the highest spots, flat is more efficient, but not as critical as we make it out to be.

    Synthetics are different in that they load up and a quick refresh lap will clean the stone and expose new fresh cutting grit, and keep it flatter.

    A hard natural once lapped flat and burnished used to hone razors should be good for a lifetime. Knives and tools may be another thing,

    So, if your stone is not flat, and you intend to experiment with that stone, you have just introduced a number of unknow variables. Reduce the variables, first then test. Which is why I advise using one razor on many stones, rather than many razors on many stone.

    I also advise lapping with Silicone Carbide on a steel cookie sheet. If you lap on glass or granite, you will see that glass and stone are as soft as the stone being lapped and are quickly themselves out of flat. Which is why a machinist will never lap on a surfaced lapping plate. Even then, surface plates must be calibrated and lapped periodically. has a great video on having his surface plate calibrated and resurfaced. He also has a great channel.

    You can buy a cookie sheet for a dollar. It also contains the slurry and water.
    Enjoy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclid440 View Post
    I assume you are just smoothing with 600-100? You will go through a lot of sand paper if not. You should flatten them on 60 grit Silicone Oxide and a steel cookie sheet first, then smooth working up the grits to 600 paper.
    I did the really heavy work on a concrete slab, then #80 wet and dry on the granite worktop and/or a #250 stone, then wet and dry to finish them, I have used one sheet each of #80, #250, #600 and #1000 to do five stones, so I don't feel that is too bad, and there is still life left in the sheets. I've done one face and one edge to #1000, the other face and edge to #250 on all five. I may try the #250 faces later with a slurry on (funny how a #250 stone and #250 paper are completely different...). Plus, my diamond plate came today, and it makes short work of chamfering the edges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Euclid440 View Post
    A natural stone can vary in performance from side to side as you are apparently experiencing.
    Ain't that the truth! the more I look at them, the more variations I'm seeing. Some have significant inclusions, two are cut in layers so the two faces are like different stones, all except one have significant differences between the two faces.

    I have just honed the first razor on one, around 20-30 laps on the 10k to re-establish the baseline, then 200 laps on one of the Chinese stones. I've stropped it with just linen and leather, no pasted strop, and it certainly seems no worse at this point than it would be off the 10k. I'll give it a test run tomorrow morning.

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    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    I have never been able to lap a hard stone on a single sheet of wet and dry. A hard stone takes several evolution or addition of loose 60 grit to get to flat. A single sheet of 80 girt would quickly be worn out.

    You may want to check your stones.

    Mark a grid with a sharpie, put a sheet of 1,000 grit on a flat steel cookie sheet and do one lap on the wet and dry.

    If all the ink does not come off, you are not flat. Pencil wears off just with the slurry in a few laps.

    A Chinese stone will quickly eat a diamond plate, they pull the diamonds out.

  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclid440 View Post
    I have never been able to lap a hard stone on a single sheet of wet and dry. A hard stone takes several evolution or addition of loose 60 grit to get to flat. A single sheet of 80 girt would quickly be worn out.

    You may want to check your stones.

    Mark a grid with a sharpie, put a sheet of 1,000 grit on a flat steel cookie sheet and do one lap on the wet and dry.

    If all the ink does not come off, you are not flat. Pencil wears off just with the slurry in a few laps.

    A Chinese stone will quickly eat a diamond plate, they pull the diamonds out.
    Perhaps you were starting from a different place. I now have five stones which are so smooth a couple of them are glassy, with no errant scratches. And a piece of #80 wet and dry which has plenty of life left in it. The rough-out was on the concrete slab, then a #250 stone and the paper to smooth out the scratches. Worked very well. I did find that being a bit gentle with the wet and dry seems to work better, pushing down too hard seemed to strain the paper a bit and pull the abrasive out.

    I just tried one with a sharpie and wet and dry as you suggest, there is no way it comes off after one lap, several tens of laps, but it does come off evenly.

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