Thread: Norton Vs Dan's translucent stones

I agree with your opinion on the Ark stone Arron. Although they are still hit and miss in my hand. I still think, at times, that I can feel a difference in the edges from a 12K and a 20K but its really hard to say for sure. I think anything past the keenness of a 12K is next to impossible to feel. But the comfort levels do change. Thinking this is to do with less stria left on the bevel at the edge. And this can be done with a well-burnished Ark. In my opinion, Burnishing makes the biggest difference.
JMO

Originally Posted by Gasman

I agree with your opinion on the Ark stone Arron. Although they are still hit and miss in my hand. I still think, at times, that I can feel a difference in the edges from a 12K and a 20K but its really hard to say for sure. I think anything past the keenness of a 12K is next to impossible to feel. But the comfort levels do change. Thinking this is to do with less stria left on the bevel at the edge. And this can be done with a well-burnished Ark. In my opinion, Burnishing makes the biggest difference.
JMO

I think you may be on to something there, Jerry-I wonder how many experienced straight shavers, in a blind shave test off of a Nani12k versus some of the higher grit naturals, same blades, same pro-level honer, identical stropping with no help from pastes, could honestly tell the difference? We'll probably never know.

Now here's another thought experiment: Introduce some serious natural edges into the mix-I bet some guys could tell. I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

I think you may be on to something there, Jerry-I wonder how many experienced straight shavers, in a blind shave test off of a Nani12k versus some of the higher grit naturals, same blades, same pro-level honer, identical stropping with no help from pastes, could honestly tell the difference? We'll probably never know.

Now here's another thought experiment: Introduce some serious natural edges into the mix-I bet some guys could tell. I could be wrong.

I can certainly tell the difference. Not by feel but by the amount of sting from AS and weepers left.

Originally Posted by Steel

I can certainly tell the difference. Not by feel but by the amount of sting from AS and weepers left.

Im with ya in that one, Steel. Synthetic's have a certain bite, about them. Where the Nat's seem more forgiving to the skin

Originally Posted by outback

Im with ya in that one, Steel. Synthetic's have a certain bite, about them. Where the Nat's seem more forgiving to the skin

Come to think of it, that sounds exactly right, Mike-"a certain bite" about synthetics, that is. Nats tend to smooth things out, of course-else why would we go to the trouble? I think that must have been the bourbon talking last night. I still think those blind, eliminate all variables but the finisher tests would be very interesting.

I agree that the synthetic edges would stand out if they had not touch anything beside clean learner and linen. But im finding with pastes and such a synthetic edge can be made much closer to a natural edge. Ive been playing with Crox strop and its opening my eyes. But than you can do too much on the crox too (at least thats my conclusion so far). Naturals are different from synthetic edges no dought.

My synthetic edge has been held up to many natural edges, I did a challenge a while back, 12k Nani edge, lead strop and clean linen with flax linen in between, no bite, just smooth. Tc

I use CrOX, on basal after a 12K. It seems to improve the edge but a Arkansas after a 12K is my favorite edge..

Originally Posted by tcrideshd

My synthetic edge has been held up to many natural edges, I did a challenge a while back, 12k Nani edge, lead strop and clean linen with flax linen in between, no bite, just smooth. Tc

I find a lead strop changes the synthetic edge by smoothing it out. And this can be seen with a scope. I played with it for a while too but had such a hard time keeping lead on the strop. I still pick it up now and than but i have to rub the lead on it everytime to get anywhere. But it does calm an edge. Rubs some of the stria smooth at the edge.

There is a lot more to it than just the stone or the finish, Paste or stropping media. The largest is the steel in the razor.

Off a stone the bevel is flat, on a pasted strop, and some aggressive leather and linen, the very edge of the bevel is thinned. With paste, and even stropping, there is no question that steel is removed or re shaped (though at a very small, micron level) and not all razor steel can handle that alteration, (thinness) and will micro-chip, when used in excess.

Synthetics by design have a more uniform distribution of grit. If we look at film, the most even distribution, the uniform stria pattern they leave on steel is most dramatic. This pattern can result in a micro sawtooth edge and aggressive shaving edge, (weepers), past 1um. Here, the shaver’s skin and beard are the variables.

If the edge is sharp enough one will not feel the removal of skin imperfections (weeper) as it occurs, but only after as stinging and bleeding.

All naturals are different and produce different edges, because of their grit, binder composition, and probably not many over 8-10k equivalent. I believe that Arks and Jnats are finish stones that are different from other naturals, in that they have a composition of grits that can produce edges at or higher than a 10 or 12k equivalent and a comfortable weeper less shave, because of the randomness of grits and still produce a straight flat bevel.

Add to all the above, the honer’s technique and in the case of Arks, stone prep or Jnat nagura, very different results can be achieved.

Paste can be used to calm or finish and fine tune an edge, but as with most things other variables are involved. I believe that pastes are over used, by most. The good news is, if over pasted, it can be “fixed” by a few laps on a finish hone to re-flatten the bevel and edge.