Thread: Shapton 16K leaving stria on bevel

Just got a 16K Shapton hone which is leaving stria on a polished 12K. What am I missing here?

Bob

Bummer Bob! I wouldnt think that would happen.

Lap it some
Had the same with mine

Originally Posted by rolodave

Lap it some
Had the same with mine

Will do.

Bob

I had the same issue with 2 16K Shapton Glass stones - lapping didn't help and I was concerned enough at the time (a few years ago) to contact Hap Stanley who at the time was head of Shapton USA. He gave me a few suggestions but none really resolved how the scratch pattern looked under a microscope. If you compare the scratch pattern between an 8k Shapton glass and a 16K there's a markable difference. After going round and round with this Hap suggested he would take it to the factory and see if there had been any issues with the binder they were using on the 16k. I do not know what ever happened with that and Hap has since broken his ties with Shapton.

At that time I was into synthetics and ultimately solved the problem by purchasing a Suehiro 20K - no such issues with that stone. I've since abandoned high grit synthetics in favor of naturals.

I hope that you'll post your results - I'm interested in what others find. As an aside this is not an uncommon problem with the 16K - I've heard of several folks with the same issue.....

Good luck

I know it must be disconcerting to find ugly stria after using the 16K, but the real question is “how did it shave?”

Here’s a quote from Keith Johnson on scratch patterns left by a Vermio hone that might be appropriate here:

The scratch pattern off the Greek stone appear to be similar to what I get from a high-end 8k, or a regular 10k synthetic JIS. I have seen notably finer striations from other slates - my Ark, and Eschers. That is not indicative of much but it’s something to think about. Lunes leave the ugliest scratches, they’re horrible to look at actually, and the edges from those stones can be ridiculously keen. Coticules too – ugliest damn bevels but they can still be super smooth as well as very keen. So I don’t put much stock into striations and how they look most of the time.

For me, the shave was underwhelming which is what led to looking at it under the scope

Originally Posted by DZEC

I know it must be disconcerting to find ugly stria after using the 16K, but the real question is “how did it shave?”

Here’s a quote from Keith Johnson on scratch patterns left by a Vermio hone that might be appropriate here:

The scratch pattern off the Greek stone appear to be similar to what I get from a high-end 8k, or a regular 10k synthetic JIS. I have seen notably finer striations from other slates - my Ark, and Eschers. That is not indicative of much but it’s something to think about. Lunes leave the ugliest scratches, they’re horrible to look at actually, and the edges from those stones can be ridiculously keen. Coticules too – ugliest damn bevels but they can still be super smooth as well as very keen. So I don’t put much stock into striations and how they look most of the time.

I did not need a microscope to see the stria, just a 10X loupe. The disconcerting part was not seeing stria but how they looked like they came from a lower grit Naniwa hone. I took Dave's advice and lapped the Shapton 16K and took it to the edge again. Still stria there but really civilised ones. I then gave the blade a good stropping on a Crox sprayed felt hanging strop, 40 or so strokes plus the usual linen and leather. The shave was perfectly fine and possibly a bit keener than the 12K Naniwa followed by the Croxed felt strop.

Like your quoted section, I normally don't put much stock in how the bevel looks. I have found that, on more than one occasion, after a good shave a quick look at the edge with a loupe showed something I hardly would have expected a good shave from. Sometimes we worry too much.

I think I will play with the Shapton some more though. I will say that the Shapton 16K removes metal fast and Dave may be right that you could do the whole job from bevel reset to finish with it.

Bob

I do remember when my 16k was new that it had a gritty feeling and was leaving deep scratches.

Time passed and I learnt to hone and lap. It is fine now..

They have that "skin" on them that has to go. For their price, you would think it would be silky smooth. You get it properly lapped and you will be fine. I've been a shapton guy for most of my honing experience as no other stone is as efficient. If you wish, I could send you mine as a reference. I typically use mine as a "barber stone", when a razor starts to feel off.