Thread: 12k ?

Hi
I have noticed that many on this Forum set the bevel and continue up to 12k before their preferred finisher !
What do most use for their 12K stage ? ie Shapton, Naniwa , natural etc

I have the Naniwa 12K, I prefer to go to 10K often though, and it is also a Naniwa. After that I use a Thuringan or home harvested finisher.
However every truly great edge is buil on the 1K hone and it is my most important hone. It is also a Naniwa. I use a 30X loupe as a honing aid.

Up to now the 12K Naniwa super stone has been my finish hone. That is followed by stropping on a Crox sprayed hanging strop then regular stropping on linen and leather. Lately I have been going to the 16K Shapton a my finish hone followed by the same stropping routine as per the 12K Naniwa. Everyone finds their own way if finishing off an edge depending on how they personally like the edge to feel.

Like Rez says everything depends on a good bevel set. Without that you are just polishing a turd.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Up to now the 12K Naniwa super stone has been my finish hone. That is followed by stropping on a Crox sprayed hanging strop then regular stropping on linen and leather. Lately I have been going to the 16K Shapton a my finish hone followed by the same stropping routine as per the 12K Naniwa. Everyone finds their own way if finishing off an edge depending on how they personally like the edge to feel.

Like Rez says everything depends on a good bevel set. Without that you are just polishing a turd.

Bob

Like it Bob !
Thats what I say about Micromesh - it can polish a turd !

I have a full set of Naniwa sharpening stones the "new" Superstones. I used to finish on the 12K, but always felt the edge was too harsh. That might have been due to my honing skills at the time.

Now I progress up through the 10K level like Bob and then move on to one or more natural stones or high grit synthetics (Shapton Glass 16K and Suehiro 20K). After honing, I always complete the process on CrOX and 0.5, 0.25 and 0.1 micron CBN strops for final polishing to produce a keen, smooth edge. That produces the best edges for my tough beard and sensitive skin. However, depending upon the coarseness of your beard and skin sensitivity, you might not need to go so such extremes. The disadvantage of doing this is that the edges do not last very long and need to be touched up frequently.

Many folks claim they can get a great shave from a Norton 8K or a Coticule, but I have never been satisfied at with edges at that level. It all depends on your needs and expectations.

Originally Posted by RayClem

Many folks claim they can get a great shave from a Norton 8K or a Coticule, but I have never been satisfied at with edges at that level. It all depends on your needs and expectations.

With respect to coticules. I am one of those folks. It's really all about learning how to squeeze as much sharpness as you can out of the stone. Of course how well you strop afterwards is not without importance. Additionaly, a Norton 8k isn't equivalent to a coticule.


Lots of people will give up on them or dismiss them claiming that the edges they produce are not sharp enough for their ultra tough beard. I argue that they just simply haven't experienced a good coticule edge yet.

So, yes we have different needs and expectations with respect to edges, but ultimately the hones we use are just a means to an end, which is a great edge. And a great edge, be it off a synthetic or a coticule, will both provide a great shave.

As for prefinisher, id say that is 8k. IMO a 12k is a finisher. So there is no reason someone NEEDS to go higher than 12k. It will give a keen edge that can shave very well. A lot of us chase the perfect edge or want to find a keener edge than 12k. But when you get to that point the comfort you can find with other stones comes in. Than the chasing starts over.

Just keep in mind that after the 12k the final step is only 2% better in keen. Its comfort levels that start to climb at that point. But the most important stone is the 1k. Naniwa stones for me too up to whatever i choose to take to that last 2%.

Originally Posted by Gasman

As for prefinisher, id say that is 8k. IMO a 12k is a finisher. So there is no reason someone NEEDS to go higher than 12k. It will give a keen edge that can shave very well. A lot of us chase the perfect edge or want to find a keener edge than 12k. But when you get to that point the comfort you can find with other stones comes in. Than the chasing starts over.

Just keep in mind that after the 12k the final step is only 2% better in keen. Its comfort levels that start to climb at that point. But the most important stone is the 1k. Naniwa stones for me too up to whatever i choose to take to that last 2%.

Thanks Jerry
I fully agree that the bevel setting using a !K stone is the most important aspect in properly honing a straight. But would you consider using a Translucent Arkie after 8K or do you think you need to go higher first ?
I am certainly no expert, but I would have thought it would take a lot longer to finish properly !
Or am I thinking this out too much ?

Originally Posted by luckypip

Thanks Jerry
I fully agree that the bevel setting using a !K stone is the most important aspect in properly honing a straight. But would you consider using a Translucent Arkie after 8K or do you think you need to go higher first ?
I am certainly no expert, but I would have thought it would take a lot longer to finish properly !
Or am I thinking this out too much ?

If you get a 12k (which the majority including myself like the Naniwa), by all means use that as your jumping off point to a trans ark if you find the Naniwa a tad harsh as some of us do.

My own usual finished edge begins with a maxed-out Nani 12 edge that I take through a progression on my highly-burnished 8x3 surgical black arkie (or sometimes my smaller Norton trans ark; I don't think there is any substantive difference to the edges they produce), followed usually by maybe 15-30 CrOx strokes on linen and 100 or so on a progression of leathers. In my hands with my technique, that approach gives me laser-sharp, precise but smooth, comfortable edges.

Having said that, I am certain you could get there off an 8k with just a little more work. In fact, I am one of those guys who could shave happily off my Norton 8k, but as Jerry said, some of us can't help "chasing" the perfect, holy grail edge.

Let us know what you end up with. Aaron

Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

If you get a 12k (which the majority including myself like the Naniwa), by all means use that as your jumping off point to a trans ark if you find the Naniwa a tad harsh as some of us do.

My own usual finished edge begins with a maxed-out Nani 12 edge that I take through a progression on my highly-burnished 8x3 surgical black arkie (or sometimes my smaller Norton trans ark; I don't think there is any substantive difference to the edges they produce), followed usually by maybe 15-30 CrOx strokes on linen and 100 or so on a progression of leathers. In my hands with my technique, that approach gives me laser-sharp, precise but smooth, comfortable edges.

Aaron

I use the same progression as Aaron, with one exception: I go with only
about 5-6 laps with CrOx spray on hard felt, then linen/leather. I, too,
am pleased with the result.

Either way, the Naniwa 12K is a good place to start the finishing phase.

Good luck!