Thread: Naniwa ‘Nagura’

Folks,

I saw these in an email from Knife Merchant, a vendor that I sometimes get knife related products form. There appear to be a 3k, 5k, and 10k, and they’re advertised as stone conditioning tools. They appear to be pieces of the regular whetstones. Anyway, I have a 5k and 10k coming, so I’ll report back with more info later.

Currently I’m using an 8k King ‘nagura’ on finer synthetic stones, but the king can shed particles so it isn’t really good for slurry and you need to rinse a hone well after using to condition a hone surface.

I've been using the dressing stone they make, for some time. Only on the chosera 1000 though, makes it even faster for edge repairs, and bevel setting fresh restores.

Originally Posted by Steve56

Folks,

I saw these in an email from Knife Merchant, a vendor that I sometimes get knife related products form. There appear to be a 3k, 5k, and 10k, and they’re advertised as stone conditioning tools. They appear to be pieces of the regular whetstones. Anyway, I have a 5k and 10k coming, so I’ll report back with more info later.

Currently I’m using an 8k King ‘nagura’ on finer synthetic stones, but the king can shed particles so it isn’t really good for slurry and you need to rinse a hone well after using to condition a hone surface.

What would be different if you used your synthetics to do the same? BBW side of a coticule works very well to polish stones. And it's harder than any synth ime anyway. Let us know how you make out!

Originally Posted by Bill31521

What would be different if you used your synthetics to do the same? BBW side of a coticule works very well to polish stones. And it's harder than any synth ime anyway. Let us know how you make out!

One thing might be to make slurry on a 10-12k stone should you decide to do that, BBW slurry, even if you got any, might be a little coarse, but I suspect that you’d get mostly base stone with BBW. I don’t have a good answer yet of course, but finer versions of the Naniwa ‘brown biscuit’ might be useful. The size was also not listed so it will be interesting to see what arrives.

Most synthetics “Nagura” are designed as cleaning/surfacing stones and not so much for making slurry. The red 600 grit stones that came with Naniwa’s were popular a while back, they work very well as cleaning stones to remove swarf, without removing as much base stone with a Diamond Plate. especially with Naniwa Super stones.

With synthetics, it really does not matter all that much how high you finish the face, as most stones are soft enough that after a few laps of use the stone is as smooth as it is going to get or it is so hard, the blade rides on the tops of the grit of a surfaced stone..

I have a 1 & 3k Nagura dressing stone, that came with the SG20. That stone works best as purely a finish stone, and I have never noticed much difference in using either the 1 or 3k side or a fine diamond plate on the SG20 for surfacing, using it as a slurry stone makes no sense.

The 600 Naniwa can make a low grit softer synthetic stones more aggressive, any slurry will make a stone more aggressive, but on harder finishing stones the goal is not aggressiveness, it is to polish.

I do use Diamond slurry, on 1,4 and even 8k stones just to remove the previous stria on the 4 & 8 and to set a bevel on 1k. I then wash off the slurry to max out the edge on each stone on a freshly lapped clean face.

So, a 10k nagura will not produce 10k slurry, it will be a mix of 10k and what ever grit the base stone is. A 10k prep stone will leave a 10k stone face on a base stone, but after a few laps as the stone releases new grit it is what ever the base stone grit is.

Now natural nagura, with natural stone are completely different and a fine natural nagura can produce a finer slurry and polish finer. Both grits will continue to break down and depending on what you are trying to achieve fresh or worked slurry can produce very different results. Synthetic Nagura slurry does not break down much, it is what it is.

It does no harm to experiment, but the results will not be magical. And they are a bit pricy, for what they are, $20-25 for the higher grits. They do look like cut up Naniwa stones and using the Nagura the same grit as the base stone is recommended by Naniwa. You can achieve the same performance with a diamond plate.

BTW, the 600 grit Naniwa nagura, works great for prepping Bonded Diamond stones, were the goal is to remove swarf and lower the height of the binder, without removing or grinding the diamonds.

Well, razor finish honing is kind of a freewheeling exercise. I saw a video where Sakimoto-San (sp?), the fellow who owns the rights to the Asano Mikawa nagura stamps, using a Mikawa nagura on a synth. More than one synth actually. Give it a try!

So if you have a jnat finisher, why not use 10k Naniwa nagura on it? Just for hoots and giggles. See if it works for you.

The good folks on the German forums seem to like the 10k Naniwa better than the 12k. I have both. The 10k is softer, it does not seem to be the same base as the 12, and the edge is not that much different. Maybe smoother, maybe not. Anyone else have/use both?

“The good folks on the German forums seem to like the 10k Naniwa better than the 12k. I have both. The 10k is softer, it does not seem to be the same base as the 12, and the edge is not that much different. Maybe smoother, maybe not. Anyone else have/use both?”

I have a couple 12k Naniwas an old pink one and a new white one, they are not the same. The old pink one seems softer and capable of a higher, near mirror finish than the new white one.

I don’t have a Naniwa 10k but do have an old King Ice Bear 10k. The King 10 k can produce a near mirror, similar to the Pink, Naniwa 12k.

Now the 8k Snow White Junpaku is a Magnesium stone, also capable of producing a near mirror, even finer and higher polish than the new Nanawia 12k.

I am on my third 8k Snow White, the first one crazed after a couple years, but still produced great edges for a few years more. The edge began to micro chip, but still produced a mirror bevel. I still use it for honing plane blades, that I strop on CBN and or Chrome Oxide to remove micro chipping and am not as concerned with micro chipping on thick carbon steel plane blades. The range of the 8k is pretty broad, I have gone from 1k to near mirror, though a 4k cuts the time on the stone.

The new 8k produces an almost mirror finish with just a few random stria on the bevel but a super straight edge.

My go to progression for razors is a King 1k, 4k Nubatama and 8k Naniwa Snow White. From the 8k I go to a natural finisher, usually a Jnat.

So, unless you are using either one as a finisher, both will finish well, with paste, very well. If you are jumping off to a natural, it does not matter.

I doubt the 10k Chosera is $275 better. I would buy the 8kJunpaku and put the $175 savings towards a SG20.

Here’s an update, the finer grit nagura are smaller than the ‘brown biscuit’ and appear to be sections of Super Stones. They seemed to have ripped a bench stone up the middle and then cut sections to a length that’s a little shorter than width of the stone. I would have thought that they’d just have sliced off full width sections, but maybe this scheme minimizes saw waste? IDK, When I’ve had a chance to try them out I’ll update the thread. Probably tomorrow.

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by Euclid440

“The good folks on the German forums seem to like the 10k Naniwa better than the 12k. I have both. The 10k is softer, it does not seem to be the same base as the 12, and the edge is not that much different. Maybe smoother, maybe not. Anyone else have/use both?”

I have a couple 12k Naniwas an old pink one and a new white one, they are not the same. The old pink one seems softer and capable of a higher, near mirror finish than the new white one.

I don’t have a Naniwa 10k but do have an old King Ice Bear 10k. The King 10 k can produce a near mirror, similar to the Pink, Naniwa 12k.

Now the 8k Snow White Junpaku is a Magnesium stone, also capable of producing a near mirror, even finer and higher polish than the new Nanawia 12k.
...
My go to progression for razors is a King 1k, 4k Nubatama and 8k Naniwa Snow White. From the 8k I go to a natural finisher, usually a Jnat.

So, unless you are using either one as a finisher, both will finish well, with paste, very well. If you are jumping off to a natural, it does not matter.

I doubt the 10k Chosera is $275 better. I would buy the 8kJunpaku and put the $175 savings towards a SG20.

Getting off topic... but those are interesting insights. After many years of getting on with an 8K / PHIG as my finishers, I bought the "new" 12K and was not impressed by it at all. Didn't understand what the fuss was about. Maybe it's because it's not the same stone as what was hyped.

I've since got a nice JNat (Shobu...) with a Nagura progression. Now I'm a happy man.

Cheers, HJ

Try lapping some of the new 12k surface off. I lapped mine several times with a 140 diamond plate and it improved it. It still does not polish like the old pink one, but better near mirror.

Swarf loading is still an issue, so make sure to do a quick lap for your final finish laps. A scotch brite will remove lite swarf load up.