Thread: Where to start with natural hones

Just learn to use whatever stone you get, Glen said it best. Look at his signature. Natural or syn, if you learn it, then you will produce great edges, so far I haven’t been shown any stone that gives me a better edge than my Naniwa 12k. And I’ve had them all. I learned it and stuck with it till I got it down pat. And like Marty said, stropping is where you will make superb edges and to make it last. So jnat, ark, Thuringia, or syn, just learn it and you will be rewarded with great edges

Learn to strop, you may not need to be so good with a hone, lots of compounds out there that will give a smoking edge, ever hear of CBN?

Originally Posted by tcrideshd

Just learn to use whatever stone you get, Glen said it best. Look at his signature. Natural or syn, if you learn it, then you will produce great edges, so far I haven’t been shown any stone that gives me a better edge than my Naniwa 12k. And I’ve had them all. I learned it and stuck with it till I got it down pat. And like Marty said, stropping is where you will make superb edges and to make it last. So jnat, ark, Thuringia, or syn, just learn it and you will be rewarded with great edges

Learn to strop, you may not need to be so good with a hone, lots of compounds out there that will give a smoking edge, ever hear of CBN?

Quite so. As far as stones go, the 12k Nanny is about as good as it gets. I like film, but it's not much "better" except that you never have to lap your film plate, so it's always consistently flat. I use my Naniwa progression quite a bit. It's very straightforward and consistent as long as you have a good lapping method.

At any rate, whatever the beginner begins with, should be stuck with until mastery occurs. Hopping around from one style to the next can waste YEARS. Not to mention $s. Lots of $s.

Yes lapping film is a little easier, buttttttttt,, I last lapped my 12k 3 years ago, all my razors ever need is 3-4 laps up and down on a dry 12k every 10 or so shaves, it’s a maintenance thing, but could go 100 my leather work is quite good, English linen , leaded strop then my 75 year old shell strop made by the master in Japan, I know I can shave a lot but it’s habit cause in the beginning I didn’t strop as well and shaving technique wasn’t great

Originally Posted by Vasilis

There is also the case with the composition/quality of the stone. Japanese ones are among the most famous, for the reason I'm writing about; Inclusions. Some naturals are extraordinarily pure from them, and for some you're flipping a coin and hope for the best. Not to say that all synthetics are pure of that, but the quality control is better from a man or a machine than leaving it to nature.

That is exactly why, in a previous post in this thread, I recommended that Jnats be bought from a reputable vendor.

Originally Posted by Kees

That is exactly why, in a previous post in this thread, I recommended that Jnats be bought from a reputable vendor.

Agree. That is why, with exception of the vintage coticule I inherited, the cotis I have purchased all came from Ardennes in Belgium with matching slurry stones. Their quality control and customer service are exemplary.

My personal preference is to use diamond plate and synthetic stones for repair and bevel setting and then to go to one of my coticule/BBW combination stones. I know those stones after having used them for years and feel comfortable relying on them to maintain and touch up an edge.

The coti edges I get are quite lovely shaving edges. If a razor seems to need it, I refresh the edge using the coti or CrOx on a paddle strop.

I have three finish “polishers” that I use to try to get that little bit more from my coti edges, but usually that’s just me trying to see what I can do as a hobbyist.

If someone were to ask me which natural stone I would suggest they start with, I would without hesitation say a combination BBW/coticule. With slurry you can start where a 2k - 4K synth leaves off and take it all the way to an 8K shave ready edge ONCE YOU KNOW THE STONE. You only need one slurry stone (usually included with the purchase of the stone), not a progression of naguras and you can raise slurry on a BBW or a coticule using a diamond plate if you don’t have a slurry stone. They won’t break the bank and the coti can be used as a great barber hone for maintenance.

My 2¢.

I got a translucent Arkansas in the mail today, and I'm already very happy with it.

You can experiment with stone face finishes, finish one side with 400-600 wet and dry and the other to 600-1k and burnish. Mark the side of the stone with a sharpie so you know which is which and you have an Ark finishing progression.

Also experiment with honing solution, soap, Ballistol and Smith’s and also using pressure.

Micro bevels are another area of options, with Kapton and even Scotch tape. There is a lot of great information on finishing with Arks.

Really pretty hard to screw up because they polish so slowly, but the edges can be exceptional.

Glad you are seeing improvement already.

Oh yeah it's definitely a noticeable difference in sharpness. When I do the test where you cut your arm hair halfway up from the skin I can literally hear the difference between having the Arkansas and not

I'm late to reply here, but I was going to suggest you try a translucent or a black hard Arkansas, as you said you had some lapidary experience. There is something nice in observing how these stones change in quality as they are lapped finer and finer. I exclusively hand-hold in honing razors, which makes use of smaller stones like 6" x 2" or 5" x 2" easier. Smaller dimensions mean lower cost than the big bench hones.

I actually started out with an Arkansas sequence with razors. Because they work slowly, I was less inclined to wear down the razor as I could see my mistakes as they developed. This also allowed me a bit more pressure at the beginning. Started out with soft Ark > hard Ark > hard black sequence to start, but later switched to a No. 1 Washita followed by a translucent, always with oil.

After a few years of this, and becoming proficient, I switched to a 1k/3k synth combo (or a 1k > 2k > 5k synth progression) followed by a coticule and ending with Welsh or Vermont slate. The synths work more quickly at the early stages, at the price of not varying the pressure so much.

All of this presupposes that one is seeking to reset the bevel on up or restore junk razors to shave-ability (I find a fine DMT useful here). If only touching up an edge, an occasional visit to a finishing stone should be all that's needed.

I think you're off to a good start with a translucent. Smooth one side and use it as a finisher or for touch-ups. Lap the other side coarse and see how that changes things used with pressure in starting out. Washita No. 1s can be found for cheap as everyone is looking for lily whites (a very nice stone too). I find these Washitas better than, say, a soft Ark, the Lily White being as versatile as a translucent, but at a more aggressive stage. I have also gone from start to finish with a fine India followed by a translucent Ark.

A trans is a good buy. Glad that's working well for you. As said the large ones can be pricey but you can get by with a 4"X2" especially if it's 1/2" thick which keeps it further from your palm and fingers if you are palm honing.

I love everything about Arks: the way they feel when you hone, the frosty edge, the edge feel. They are even more durable than a lot of stones, especially synths. I have to glue my 12k sharptonn back together because it was leaning at a 45° drying on the tile tub surround and it slid out and fell flat. Cracked the dad blame thing right in half.

That trans should last you a lifetime or more. I got my start with Arks from heirlooms my dad had for decades.