Thread: Tested with Coticule Razor Honing, fine linen Strop.Toilet paper cutting test.+HHT.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I think Oz nailed it

The idea of the TP test is not foreign to us, it is a viable test at the bevel set, in fact it is pretty well documented here in many old threads...

Most of us use other tests for Bevel Setting, but the TP tests works very well for finding issues with the edge leaving tiny little White Flags to point out the issues..

Where the divergence comes from is that most all of us shy away from "Edge Touch" tests after the bevel is well and properly set.. There should be no Microchips, once the bevel is set properly, so touching the edge makes many of us squeamish

Some still use the HHT, most understand that it is only a personal indicator of "Sharpness" and that a shaving edge must not only be sharp but Smooth..
The other thing that is rather foreign to us is using a Slicing test on an edge designed for a Push Cut.. Honestly we have seen crazier stuff over the years, there were people out there Slicing Tomato skins and Peeling Grapes too

Thanks, I am also trying to correct the TPT test to reduce false positives and use the TP cut test accuracy to know if the edge "micro chips" state is as clean as I want.

I have never tried this test before, so i tested two of my razors in my rotation. Both of these have over 20 shaves on them. So i know that they shave well. After 20+ shaves there really should not be any micro burrs on the edge. I get no alum feedback after i shave. These are stopped before and after each shave. On average i do around 50 passes before and after each shave. For 20 shaves this gives over 2000 passes on leather in total. In addition i use linen to dry the blade.
They also do pass the hanging hair test. I did not have any dark coarse hair laying around, but it did cut my daughters thin blonde hair quite well.
To me this test just tells me the edge could be much keener. If you are able to get a close shave with that type of edge that is the important part. I never did well with those types of edges.

https://youtu.be/1OPhvX8jDYo

Originally Posted by JPO

I have never tried this test before, so i tested two of my razors in my rotation. Both of these have over 20 shaves on them. So i know that they shave well. After 20+ shaves there really should not be any micro burrs on the edge. I get no alum feedback after i shave. These are stopped before and after each shave. On average i do around 50 passes before and after each shave. For 20 shaves this gives over 2000 passes on leather in total. In addition i use linen to dry the blade.
They also do pass the hanging hair test. I did not have any dark coarse hair laying around, but it did cut my daughters thin blonde hair quite well.
To me this test just tells me the edge could be much keener. If you are able to get a close shave with that type of edge that is the important part. I never did well with those types of edges.

https://youtu.be/1OPhvX8jDYo

An Italian friend also learned how to use the TP CUT test and he uses it better than me.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

using a Slicing test on an edge designed for a Push Cut

This is a very valid point, and gets right to the heart of what OP was showing.

The physics of it is slightly long, it's to do with friction (all of cutting anything is about friction), and hardness vs toughness. But to generalise briefly... a really good, Platonically ideal, razor edge should have a magic HHT, but not be good at pull cutting toilet paper.

You can see it quite easily if you take a not-very-good razor edge, off a prefinisher or something, and it will pull cut toilet tissue at light pressure better than the same razor with a great edge off a finishing stone.

Honing the use Coticule+BBW slurry stone >Strop >TEST.
TAMAKO RAZOR YSK 18.5mm
玉鋼 = Tamahagane

On one hand I will say that I never saw my Dad use magnification while honing. In the days before good optics were available honers (mainly barbers I'd say) managed to get their razors where they needed to be without it.

On the other hand, for thousands of years people crapped in a hole in the ground. Just because we used to do things doesn't mean that we shouldn't use the best available tools now. However it is a good exercise to know how to achieve best level results without them. It's sort of like primitive camping: It's good for the challenge but not comfortable.

I had never seen this method and didn't quite understand at first until some of the language/translation obstacles were cleared. I must say that I admire the OP's efforts to communicate his point in spite of the difficulty. I would also agree that each person has the way that works best for them. As mentioned the hair shown originally being very coarse could effect the HHT. Being from Taiwan I assume you are east asian. I have heard from barbers that east Asian hair is much different than Caucasian hair and snaps when cut and can stick in the flesh like a spear. That would tend to make it pass the HHT easier. Also each person and each race's skin is different. My son is a carrot top redhead and has very dense and very VERY coarse hair but he also has very sensitive skin. He has to use baby laundry detergent to keep from getting a rash. This makes shaving uncomfortable for him. I always tame the edges for him because the wicked keen edges I like and need abrade his skin. This says to me that even if this test meant your edge was not as sharp as it could be it may work better for you than for someone like me with the alligator skin and the ultra fine silky beard. Edges I use might exfoliate and irritate your skin....

At the end of it all getting a good comfortable shave is the key. I will however say that the stropping technique you show baffles me. I don't understand it but I also don't understand a lot of things that apparently work well so if it works for you then more power to you.

Originally Posted by cotedupy

This is a very valid point, and gets right to the heart of what OP was showing.

The physics of it is slightly long, it's to do with friction (all of cutting anything is about friction), and hardness vs toughness. But to generalise briefly... a really good, Platonically ideal, razor edge should have a magic HHT, but not be good at pull cutting toilet paper.

You can see it quite easily if you take a not-very-good razor edge, off a prefinisher or something, and it will pull cut toilet tissue at light pressure better than the same razor with a great edge off a finishing stone.

Thank you, you explained the reason for the edge, the edge has less friction on the toilet paper, but it can be completed for the HHT test.

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

On one hand I will say that I never saw my Dad use magnification while honing. In the days before good optics were available honers (mainly barbers I'd say) managed to get their razors where they needed to be without it.

On the other hand, for thousands of years people crapped in a hole in the ground. Just because we used to do things doesn't mean that we shouldn't use the best available tools now. However it is a good exercise to know how to achieve best level results without them. It's sort of like primitive camping: It's good for the challenge but not comfortable.

I had never seen this method and didn't quite understand at first until some of the language/translation obstacles were cleared. I must say that I admire the OP's efforts to communicate his point in spite of the difficulty. I would also agree that each person has the way that works best for them. As mentioned the hair shown originally being very coarse could effect the HHT. Being from Taiwan I assume you are east asian. I have heard from barbers that east Asian hair is much different than Caucasian hair and snaps when cut and can stick in the flesh like a spear. That would tend to make it pass the HHT easier. Also each person and each race's skin is different. My son is a carrot top redhead and has very dense and very VERY coarse hair but he also has very sensitive skin. He has to use baby laundry detergent to keep from getting a rash. This makes shaving uncomfortable for him. I always tame the edges for him because the wicked keen edges I like and need abrade his skin. This says to me that even if this test meant your edge was not as sharp as it could be it may work better for you than for someone like me with the alligator skin and the ultra fine silky beard. Edges I use might exfoliate and irritate your skin....

At the end of it all getting a good comfortable shave is the key. I will however say that the stropping technique you show baffles me. I don't understand it but I also don't understand a lot of things that apparently work well so if it works for you then more power to you.

Sorry, I have a typo in the translation, strop jumps, mainly I use the power control and fine linen, if I use coarse linen, I may have "blunt edges", linen and stone actually have thick and thin classifications, but flax does not Being sorted, I made strop using fine linen I found, so little wear on the edges, but good for removing "burr"or "micro chips" .