Thread: What is Your Current Honing Set-up?

My experience has been that an Ark finisher ("true hard," translucent, hard black, black translucent) will leave a coarser edge in a dedicated progression off Washitas or soft Arkansas stones. The higher claims for Ark finishers are generally off an extended synth progression, where I suppose they have a calming, tempering, burnishing effect rather than a sharpening effect from a dedicated progression. But hey, I'll be happy to be proven wrong. Oil is the only way I've used them.

I am a firm believer that a method works well when you find your own nuances. Plus your stones are different from mine. I have heard great things about the Norton #1 while mine is a multicolored swirl and much smaller. You can probably reliably skip by the mid range with what you are able to do with that larger Norton. Hope you find the best way to make it your own Steve.

Bronto, I can't speak to the specifics of your experience but this method has worked quite well for me, especially with Smith's and water dilution. Norton honing oil with WD-40 dilution also works well.

I got crickets when I posted about this method before but all I can say is, "try it." I shaved with one I did this way this morning and it was crisp but still as smooth as silk.

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

I am a firm believer that a method works well when you find your own nuances. Plus your stones are different from mine. I have heard great things about the Norton #1 while mine is a multicolored swirl and much smaller. You can probably reliably skip by the mid range with what you are able to do with that larger Norton. Hope you find the best way to make it your own Steve.

Bronto, I can't speak to the specifics of your experience but this method has worked quite well for me, especially with Smith's and water dilution. Norton honing oil with WD-40 dilution also works well.

I got crickets when I posted about this method before but all I can say is, "try it." I shaved with one I did this way this morning and it was crisp but still as smooth as silk.

I just shaved with my new Ark edge, what can I say. It was laser sharp, make sure you can hear the wife watching telly downstairs so she won't come in and talk kind of sharp.

Final words, sharp, damn sharp, I don't know how much i like the feel yet, I need a few more shaves with it. I might even give it a couple of laps on a Coticle to see what that does. Stupid sharp and buttery smooth, I would like that a lot.

Sorry, I haven't followed the most recent posts leading up to the current discussion. I'm not saying that a Washita to finishing Ark or a dedicated Ark progression doesn't lead to a decent shaving edge, it does; but from my experience, that edge is not as sharp or close as is could be, although it is smooth. In the current case, the finishing Ark was followed by crox leading to perceived sharpness during the shave, so it appears to be crox that is contributing to this sensation, not the Arkansas stone. Following the paste with a coticule or a return to the same Ark finishing stone for a few passes may impart smoothness to the perceived sharpness, resulting in a hybrid of the two.

In my recent case ("like 'Grandpa' used to shave" above), I followed a fine India to translucent Ark progression with a red-pasted strop to get that sharpness and closeness. If I would subsequently return to the trans Ark or a coticule used with oil, that again would create a hybrid between the pasted edge and the smoothness imparted by the natural stone. This, I think, is similar to an extended synth water-stone progression where the edge can be "calmed" by returning to a natural, trans Ark or coticule at the end, or what I was referring to in my last post.

Originally Posted by Brontosaurus

Sorry, I haven't followed the most recent posts leading up to the current discussion. I'm not saying that a Washita to finishing Ark or a dedicated Ark progression doesn't lead to a decent shaving edge, it does; but from my experience, that edge is not as sharp or close as is could be, although it is smooth. In the current case, the finishing Ark was followed by crox leading to perceived sharpness during the shave, so it appears to be crox that is contributing to this sensation, not the Arkansas stone. Following the paste with a coticule or a return to the same Ark finishing stone for a few passes may impart smoothness to the perceived sharpness, resulting in a hybrid of the two.

In my recent case ("like 'Grandpa' used to shave" above), I followed a fine India to translucent Ark progression with a red-pasted strop to get that sharpness and closeness. If I would subsequently return to the trans Ark or a coticule used with oil, that again would create a hybrid between the pasted edge and the smoothness imparted by the natural stone. This, I think, is similar to an extended synth water-stone progression where the edge can be "calmed" by returning to a natural, trans Ark or coticule at the end, or what I was referring to in my last post.

Coticule honers often take an edge that has been made very sharp with synthetics to a coticule to make the edge more comfortable. I’m still trying to get my head around how using a coti “softens” the edge without losing sharpness.

Science of Sharp talks about the difference between an edge being sharp and it being keen. I have read that several times and am still trying to get my head around that distinction as well.

At any rate, I like my coti edges very much and only go back to my synths to reset a bevel or restore an abused blade. I still finish with a coticule after 8k Norton and follow up with a polisher.

I don't know the science behind it and I have no research based evidence, only observation to go by. I do use the hard Arks, particularly a black to finish after synth progressions and it is probably my favorite edge after synths with the possible exception of a thuri depending on the steel. However, the Ark progression is smoother yet still very keen. The biggest caveat is that there is a noteworthy investment of time to get it right. For a production schedule it would not be practical but if you are one who likes meditative repetitive motion/activity it is cathartic. Personally I prefer it to Ark finish only but as we all know each natural stone is different as are the hands of the honer who works them.

I took my new super sharp Ark edge that i finished and shaved with yesterday and gave it 10 laps on a Coticule with plain water before I shaved today.

It's still stupid sharp but also smooth and lovely to shave with

I will say that my experience with a Coti is that it needs the strop in a big way so it got 60 on cotton and 100 on leather which made it super keen again and i also adjust the razor angle when I use a Coti edge. I don't know if it's steep or shallow, never understood really but I hold the spine closer to my face than with other edges.

Originally Posted by Brontosaurus

My experience has been that an Ark finisher ("true hard," translucent, hard black, black translucent) will leave a coarser edge in a dedicated progression off Washitas or soft Arkansas stones. The higher claims for Ark finishers are generally off an extended synth progression, where I suppose they have a calming, tempering, burnishing effect rather than a sharpening effect from a dedicated progression. But hey, I'll be happy to be proven wrong. Oil is the only way I've used them.

It could be not getting the work done before moving on to the finisher, or you need another intermediate stone, maybe even a little more pressure when you first get onto the finisher. But it's not the stones fault.

Arks are very pressure reliant and like some to cut effectively. I think that is where they become difficult with razors, especially the hollow ground ones.

A coticule to an ark finisher is as easy a progression as it gets for me. I can't tell the difference between that edge and an ark progression. Of course YMMV.

For those using Shapton Glass, what do you lap them with?
How much faster is Shapton Glass compared to something like Norton Waterstones?

When people say Washitas are they generally talking about Lily Whites, or standard Washitas??

There are a plethora of different Washitas. Just like thuris where there are Escher's which are fabulous and then there are others that may be good and then again they may not be.
Back to Washitas, the majority of them were small stones intended for knives but not suitable for razors. They can also have big inclusions in them. My son has a Washita which is fabulous except that it has a pot hole on either side and would not be suitable for razors. The exceptional ones made it to the Norton #1 and the Lily White labels and they are a horse of a different color than your Buck or Smith's clear top box sets. That notwithstanding, I have a couple of old sets made for knives that are great bevel setters. A lot has to do with surface prep, and, as Desertrat points out pressure is key. Because they are.so slow you can apply a fairly heavy pressure at the outset and then lighten pressure toward the end of the side and acheive what amounts to a change in grit, especially since they require so many laps. The way I do it: palm holding the stones and doing a set of half X down and back sets on one side then the other it goes quite quickly. But that is going afield of the point so I digress.
In addition they have been mined out. What is left is nowhere near as good as the old (mined long ago) stones and they are not commercially mined anymore. I would love to have a Lily White but even without it, getting an old set from Smith's or Buck with the "on a case by case basis," caveat you can still get quite good results all the way from sawing on hot butter to shavable edge on the one stone as Steve has posted.