Thread: New Taidea Proyan glass series... Anyone did anyone else try these?

Originally Posted by therapy

Hi mrjin
Just give it a couple of days, they will answer. I do have a request for you: The new hones Taidea sent me are still perfect and do not show the problems the earlier ones had. If you are in contact with Taidea, could you ask them were they suggest Western clients to buy these stones to make sure they get the newest ones instead of some old stock? Thanks!
Peter.

Yep, sure, I will if they get back to me.

Hi all.
I got a 15k with hopes of improving nanowa ss 12 k...

My observations so far, the stone came with a raised patch of rough that took a while to lap out. So far it seems a fast cutting stone and with pressure makes more swafe than ss12 and ss 8. Lapping was done with old dmt extra course a few times. The feedback is a bit inconsistent so far, like some parts of the stone cut fast and the rest is not doing any work.
I brought a razor to 8 k level ( tree top with resistance) then on to the 15 k with little improvement. Then I tried bringing it to ss12 finish level of treetop with less resistance; and the 15k did not seem to improve the edge.

How much do you have to lap these sones?

How much pressure with the razor? What kind of feedback should I aim for?

What to lap with?

Matt

Hi mattnat

Very interesting question about the lapping... When I started using these hones not much lapping was needed, but the scratch pattern of the 15K was less refined than the pattern of the 10K. The shave off the 15K was better though. The scratch pattern got better and the shaves even more fantastic after I decided to do some extra lapping, so I guess in your case that is what you should do. The stone should feel nice and even after been properly lapped, I never noticed inconsistent feedback.

About improving on the nani 12K... The naniwa in the right hands is a fantastic finisher and I believe everything from there on becomes very subjective. Personally I much prefer the Proyan 15K finish, not because it feels sharper, but because it feels so much smoother, skin friendlier and more "natural" than any other synthetic I tried to this day. It even made me abandon my go-to small greenish-grey thuringian finisher I used for years...

About pressure and feedback... If your razor is "ready" for the finishing fase, you should not need pressure, just weight of the blade. With my 6/8 full hollow grounds, I get a kind of "sticky" feeling when the blades are there. The 15K is actually a very easy finisher to work with, as - although it is fast - it seems almost impossible to overhone on it. Just play with it for a while, I'm sure you'll find a way it works for you!

Kind regards,
Peter.

Originally Posted by mattnat

Hi all.
I got a 15k with hopes of improving nanowa ss 12 k...

My observations so far, the stone came with a raised patch of rough that took a while to lap out. So far it seems a fast cutting stone and with pressure makes more swafe than ss12 and ss 8. Lapping was done with old dmt extra course a few times. The feedback is a bit inconsistent so far, like some parts of the stone cut fast and the rest is not doing any work.
I brought a razor to 8 k level ( tree top with resistance) then on to the 15 k with little improvement. Then I tried bringing it to ss12 finish level of treetop with less resistance; and the 15k did not seem to improve the edge.

How much do you have to lap these sones?

How much pressure with the razor? What kind of feedback should I aim for?

What to lap with?

Matt

Mine came with the most of the surface uneven. Had to use a diamond plate to lap it to an acceptable condition. I should have removed ~0.5mm. I don't use much pressure by just pressed the center of the edge a little bit to make it fully contact the surface.

The only problem is that the stone crazed badly. Emailed them more or less a week ago, did not hear from them yet.

Thanks Peter for the detailed reply
I had another go with the 15k , went through quite a few cycles of pencil and lapping. With weight of razor strokes the stone seems to self slurry... I cleaned it with my hand and water after lapping and made Shure to finish lapping with lots of water and low pressure. Then within a few laps the water in front of the razor does from milky to creamy then the feel gets inconsistent again . Like a super stone that I lapped with a 1 k glass stone. Or a hair I can't seem to find.

I tried honing under running water because lapping seemed to work better that way and the feel was believable as finishing hone. Similar to super Stone 12 smooth. With leading edge strokes as lite as I could the scratch pattern on the bevel had an interesting hint of blue and looked better polished. I haven't stropped it yet and it is at a stage of tree topping middle resistance. Maybe it would be good after pasted fabric and leather?

When people talk about a finishing hone having different qualities than another are they assuming no pasted strops?
Matt

Originally Posted by mattnat

Thanks Peter for the detailed reply
I had another go with the 15k , went through quite a few cycles of pencil and lapping. With weight of razor strokes the stone seems to self slurry... I cleaned it with my hand and water after lapping and made Shure to finish lapping with lots of water and low pressure. Then within a few laps the water in front of the razor does from milky to creamy then the feel gets inconsistent again . Like a super stone that I lapped with a 1 k glass stone. Or a hair I can't seem to find.

I tried honing under running water because lapping seemed to work better that way and the feel was believable as finishing hone. Similar to super Stone 12 smooth. With leading edge strokes as lite as I could the scratch pattern on the bevel had an interesting hint of blue and looked better polished. I haven't stropped it yet and it is at a stage of tree topping middle resistance. Maybe it would be good after pasted fabric and leather?

When people talk about a finishing hone having different qualities than another are they assuming no pasted strops?
Matt

Hi Mattnat

If the stone is self slurrying with weight of the razor only, I'd say there's something wrong with the stone as the two I have are rather hard. I am testing these stone at the moment, eventually to write an extensive review for the forum and I must say I have an unusual experience with them too: When I started to write down my findings about a month ago, I thought the stone were quite soft, maybe a tad harder than the naniwa ss. To test durability, I lap them after each honing and I must say that I do not find them soft at all anymore. It feels as if these stones get harder with time, or with being lapped down... Since when do you have these stones and where did you buy them? According to Taidea, recent stones should be ok, but some badges had problems in the past.

As to the edge on your razor: I seems ready to be stropped on plain leather only to me! Some people prefer to keep using pastes after high quality finishers and I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but if you want to learn how good or bad your stone is, you should first shave off it without pastes.

Peter.

What I found was that the jump between 8k (Norton) and 15k (proyan) seemed too big and the 15k did not perform well after the 8k but after 12k (sharpton) it performed quite well and all the prickly, overhoned feeling 12k sharptons are notorious for went away. I, however did find it noticably sharper but that was based on the shave and not on tests lol like the hht or others so that may be a little subjective. I have used it with slurry just about every time as mine came from Amazon with a little stone that looked like a small piece of a flattening stone. It seems to be sic as it is very hard as is my 15k. What surprised me most was how quickly it cuts for a high grit stone. Honing with slurry the slurry starts to show very dark swarf after only one or.two strokes and keeps getting darker with every lap.

Hay all I got it from Alibaba. I wonder if I should take it outside and lap half of it down on the sidewalk with a hose To see if it gets better. I am interested in a harder hone.
Funny thing that the synthetic hone with the most natural stone feel seems to be a bit inconsistent stone to stone.
Matt
I

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

What I found was that the jump between 8k (Norton) and 15k (proyan) seemed too big and the 15k did not perform well after the 8k but after 12k (sharpton) it performed quite well and all the prickly, overhoned feeling 12k sharptons are notorious for went away. I, however did find it noticably sharper but that was based on the shave and not on tests lol like the hht or others so that may be a little subjective. I have used it with slurry just about every time as mine came from Amazon with a little stone that looked like a small piece of a flattening stone. It seems to be sic as it is very hard as is my 15k. What surprised me most was how quickly it cuts for a high grit stone. Honing with slurry the slurry starts to show very dark swarf after only one or.two strokes and keeps getting darker with every lap.

Mine was doing that even without slurry, as single pass would leave visible black swarf on the stone and can easily removed by simply swipe my fingers over it. Unfortunately it crazed pretty badly.

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

What I found was that the jump between 8k (Norton) and 15k (proyan) seemed too big and the 15k did not perform well after the 8k but after 12k (sharpton) it performed quite well and all the prickly, overhoned feeling 12k sharptons are notorious for went away. I, however did find it noticably sharper but that was based on the shave and not on tests lol like the hht or others so that may be a little subjective. I have used it with slurry just about every time as mine came from Amazon with a little stone that looked like a small piece of a flattening stone. It seems to be sic as it is very hard as is my 15k. What surprised me most was how quickly it cuts for a high grit stone. Honing with slurry the slurry starts to show very dark swarf after only one or.two strokes and keeps getting darker with every lap.

Paul

I'm re-reading through this thread and must have missed this... Are you finishing on slurry with the 15K? I also have good results on using light slurry on this stone, but I always finish with at least 5 laps on clear water, so if you want to add sharpness, that is what I would suggest.

Kind regards, Peter.