Thread: Is a vintage THURINGIAN an escher?

I have a chance to get some vintage thuringian stones, with the box stating they are Thuringian water stones. Would that make them an Escher or the same stone as an Escher? Man, I have Had worse than Rad!

i'm pretty sure it doesn't make them escher. escher is a company that mined in the same region, but they have very specific label that clearly notes that the stone came from them. if your stone has different label, it's not escher. if it has no label it may or may not be an escher, but it's more likely not than it is.

My understanding is that they are different stones with different cutting properties. Thuringens are harder and courser while Eschers are softer and finer in general.

Argggghhhhhhhhh! Will I ever find an Escher! Anyone else insanely obsessed like this?

Originally Posted by heavydutysg135

My understanding is that they are different stones with different cutting properties. Thuringens are harder and courser while Eschers are softer and finer in general.

I think more correctly, an Escher is likely a Thuringen, where as a Thuringen can be any of several other brands. The same vintage stone is often found with a variety of brandings on them, Escher, Boker, etc.... most were quarried in the same region, town and possibly the same hole in the ground. I had one marked Droescher with a Sears price tag on it. Under magnification all were identical.

The confusion comes from the MST stones. They occasionally have vintage Thuringens and most often "Natural Water Stones" which are from the Hunsrueck region, darker, harder, faster and often sold as Thuringens. They look grainier, with sparkly, fleck like grain to them while the real deal tends to be a dull, uniform finish ranging from light blue grey, to dark slateboard grey, to greenish yellow. They tend to be much softer.

In the interest of full disclosure I am a dealer in the Original Thuringen stones and for a short time in the MST Hunsruecks.

Tony

It's a little complicated. The short answer is, maybe the hones you're being offered are what we call eschers, but it'd be hard to say without seeing them. What follows is the long answer.

Gugi is right that Escher is a specific company, but their product was a hone mined in Thuringia. Other companies marketed the same thing, and back in the day these were known generically as "german water hones" or less often "Thuringian hones." Whether because Escher was the most prominent or because they're recognized as the best grade or something or maybe simply because their cool labels make them collectible I don't know – but "Escher" has come to replace "German water hone" as the generic name for these very fine, slate-based hones once mined in Thuringia and ranging from yellow-green to gray-blue in color. Other common brands of "Escher" hones are Droescher, Fox, and Celebrated.

Making things extra confusing is the fact that more recently hones are again being mined from Thuringia, and while similar these are not identical to the vintage water hones aka "eschers." They are a little harder, faster, darker (charcoal gray) and according to most a little less fine than the old ones. These are commonly called "thuringians."

On SRP (unless I've totally misunderstood things, which is always a possibility) an "escher" refers to the vintage hone, regardless of the brand. "Thuringian" refers to the currently mined hone. This may seem confusing because it means there are what we call "eschers" that aren't in fact made by Escher & Co., and there are vintage hones out there labeled "Thuringian" that aren't what we call Thuringians, but are in fact what we call "eschers." But this system does have the merit of classifying hones by their intrinsic properties.

Dylan,
And remember the newer stones, 2" x 8" and 3" x 8", such as found on eBay by the fellow who sells the Wapis are from Hunsrueck, not Thuringen and are quite different. I sold these too for a short time and had to deal with large pyrite inclusions and more of an issue, hard glassy inclusions that would not lap flat.

The real Thuringens available today come from newly quarried stones and some from material quarried years agao and one would ne hard pressed to tell that they perform any differently than the really old pieces.

Tony

Originally Posted by Tony Miller

I think more correctly, an Escher is likely a Thuringen, where as a Thuringen can be any of several other brands. The same vintage stone is often found with a variety of brandings on them, Escher, Boker, etc.... most were quarried in the same region, town and possibly the same hole in the ground. I had one marked Droescher with a Sears price tag on it. Under magnification all were identical.

The confusion comes from the MST stones. They occasionally have vintage Thuringens and most often "Natural Water Stones" which are from the Hunsrueck region, darker, harder, faster and often sold as Thuringens. They look grainier, with sparkly, fleck like grain to them while the real deal tends to be a dull, uniform finish ranging from light blue grey, to dark slateboard grey, to greenish yellow. They tend to be much softer.

In the interest of full disclosure I am a dealer in the Original Thuringen stones and for a short time in the MST Hunsruecks.

Tony

Tony I own one of your stones and use it. but to my it is different then my esher braned stones. to me nothing polishes like a vintage esher where the stone you sell puts on a nice final cut with a slurry. Just my 2 cents.

Taz,
Whixh sized stone did you buy from me, 2 1/2" x 5" with rubbing stone or something different?
Tony

Originally Posted by Tony Miller

Taz,
Whixh sized stone did you buy from me, 2 1/2" x 5" with rubbing stone or something different?
Tony

Yea that is the one