Thread: Shapton Ceramic on glass hones

Has anyone used the Shapton ceramic on glass hones? They seem like they would be super flat and pretty durable. These hones are available from 220 to 30,000 grit and are fairly affordable.

http://shaptonstones.com/index.php?m...&cPath=164_166

No, but I'm thinking of getting the 16K. Do a search on Shaptons - I think I recall mparker saying he uses the Shapton Pro series, but that if he had known about the glass series he would have gotten them (or something - sorry if I'm putting words into your mouth mparker...).

I think he also said you need to have a very light touch as the Shaptons are fast and hard - the razor can get a suction happening on the hone, the pressure of which can hurt the edge if not careful. I think this was with regard to the Pro series, but may equally be true of the Glass series.

James.

Good call, I found the previous discussion available and will link it.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/showt...hlight=shapton

And there's also this one.

James.

I ended up getting one right after Ucliker and I were talking back then... have been using it on every razor since then, but as a control factor, I did not go back, and refresh every razor with it... that way I could see if there is a difference between an 8k and paste finished razor, and a 16k and paste finished razor... To be honest.... yes the Shapton does put a slightly smoother feel on the razors.... Would I recommend it????? probably not... unless you are to the point in your honing skills that you feel totally comfortable, that you can produce a shaving sharp edge without a hiccup.... Because the Shapton requires a very soft touch to get anything out of them....
JMHO here ,,,,,

FYI the Shapton is rated at .92 microns...

I'm very comfortable sharpening all manner of tools and haven't had any trouble taking razors through a progression from "butter-knife" sharp (found at my local antique store) all the way up to passing HHT in two nights. Basic honing is more or less second nature to me, but I do use a barber's hone for current final polishing. I assume from everything I feel that these are very slow stones, though they do seem to put a pretty good edge on a blade. I am looking at the shapton's as a quick way to do 1) bevel setting on restored blades 2) move into final honing on the same blades. I've found that I can get some very sweet razors for $5-10 at antique stores, though you do have to be prepared to work on them. What I would have to ask, with my current finishing stone in mind, is how much faster than a barber's hone are these stones? I assume it isn't going to be a super quick process to find out how fast these cut, but I would appreciate the feedback on these hones compared to the barber's.

I have a Shapton Diamond on Glass Lapping Plate (DGLP) coming in the mail any day now. After being accepted into what is a very small and close knit online community of woodworkers who use Japanese woodworking tools who also commonly use the Shapton stones including the ceramic on glass plates, I asked them if they thought the ceramic on glass would work well with straight razors. They gave me some great information such as:

Since the ceramic on glass plates are typically lapped with the DGLP which is flat to less than one thousandth of a millimeter (.5 micron to be exact. I just like saying one thousandth of a millimeter better!), they are so flat that it's common to experience "stiction" (suction) with chisels, plane irons and also as reported here on SRP, razors. The woodworkers work around this by: 1) adjusting the amount of water used on the plate when honing. 2) skewing the edge at an angle rather than head on (much like AFDavis (Alan) does when he hones his razors).

Tim Zowada told me recently that Shapton stones work perfectly well with razors.

I have a Shapton 16,000 ceramic on glass plate coming and I will be buying a 1,000 grit plate for bevel setting. This will complete a Shapton "sandwich" for me with the middle being my natural stones (Tam O' Shanter, Belgian Blue, Yellow Coticule and Chinese 12K).

I'm looking forward to trying these Shapton ceramic plates very soon. The 1000 grit should be a very fast cutter given the uniformity in grit that Shapton boasts.

Originally Posted by shotwell1234

I'm very comfortable sharpening all manner of tools and haven't had any trouble taking razors through a progression from "butter-knife" sharp (found at my local antique store) all the way up to passing HHT in two nights. Basic honing is more or less second nature to me, but I do use a barber's hone for current final polishing. I assume from everything I feel that these are very slow stones, though they do seem to put a pretty good edge on a blade. I am looking at the shapton's as a quick way to do 1) bevel setting on restored blades 2) move into final honing on the same blades. I've found that I can get some very sweet razors for $5-10 at antique stores, though you do have to be prepared to work on them. What I would have to ask, with my current finishing stone in mind, is how much faster than a barber's hone are these stones? I assume it isn't going to be a super quick process to find out how fast these cut, but I would appreciate the feedback on these hones compared to the barber's.

As to the lower grits I have no idea... the 16k is a fast cutter for the grit I limit myself to no more than 20 laps, ever.. I have grown used to using the Norton's from 1k -8k, however, if I were to start again knowing what I know now, I would probably get a progression of the Shapton's, if only for the lack of needing to lap as often...

While I am perfectly happy with the results I am getting from my Norton 4k/8k, and blue/yellow coticule with a chrome oxide finish, I am still contemplating ordering a full series of Shaptons based on the various comments I've read.

Shaptons bring order to the madness. The grit size of these manufactured hones is carefully controlled. The binder allows for frequent lapping with a quality diamond lap that is also available from Shapton. I think it's the ultimate honing system, the combination of the ceramic grit and the lapping system should accommodate just about any type of steel, tool etc. made and make it easy to establish a honing system or pattern if you will. Natural stones work well with traditional steels but when facing newer stainless varieties and harder alloys, the traditional stones begin to struggle. The Shapton hones, using modern ultrasharp ceramic grit, can cut pretty much any hardness of steel with the same ease as older, plain vanilla, carbon steel.

Dr. Moss has found this to be pretty much the case and has a set progression when dealing with previously sharpened by himself razors. I'm sure the outside extremes such as wedges vs singing hollow grounds might require some modification of the normal honing pattern, but the actual composition of the steel the blade is made from shouldn't make much of a difference with these modern hones.

Naturally, the proof as always lies in the pudding.... I guess I'll just have to get around to ordering a set for myself to see just what these Shapton stones are capable of....


Regard

Kaptain "Curious George" Zero

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

While I am perfectly happy with the results I am getting from my Norton 4k/8k, and blue/yellow coticule with a chrome oxide finish, I am still contemplating ordering a full series of Shaptons based on the various comments I've read.

Shaptons bring order to the madness. The grit size of these manufactured hones is carefully controlled. The binder allows for frequent lapping with a quality diamond lap that is also available from Shapton. I think it's the ultimate honing system, the combination of the ceramic grit and the lapping system should accommodate just about any type of steel, tool etc. made and make it easy to establish a honing system or pattern if you will. Natural stones work well with traditional steels but when facing newer stainless varieties and harder alloys, the traditional stones begin to struggle. The Shapton hones, using modern ultrasharp ceramic grit, can cut pretty much any hardness of steel with the same ease as older, plain vanilla, carbon steel.

Dr. Moss has found this to be pretty much the case and has a set progression when dealing with previously sharpened by himself razors. I'm sure the outside extremes such as wedges vs singing hollow grounds might require some modification of the normal honing pattern, but the actual composition of the steel the blade is made from shouldn't make much of a difference with these modern hones.

Naturally, the proof as always lies in the pudding.... I guess I'll just have to get around to ordering a set for myself to see just what these Shapton stones are capable of....


Regard

Kaptain "Curious George" Zero

Hey Kap, I've been bitten by the Shapton bug myself, although I can't spring for a whole set at once. We'll have to report back our findings here. I'm looking forward to lapping ALL my stones with the diamond on glass plate (I think I'll take a closeup of it which will be my new avatar) and polish my edges with the 16,000.

Chris L