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  1. #1
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    Default Did barber hones ever work?!

    Those who who have been reading my threads know that, until a couple days ago, I was honing exclusively with barber hones. I started with Tilly's 3-hone beginner set, then added a couple Swatys just because I've always been curious about them. I have a nice wide range of grits, from shockingly coarse (~1K) to fairly fine (~8K).

    I recently bought a Chinese 12K and holy moly, what a difference it makes!

    Of all the barber hones I have, only one (the Lithide hone) could be called a finishing hone. The rest of them are all too coarse to shave with by themselves. Even the two Swatys, reputed to be the finest hones money can buy, are shockingly coarse & aggressive. You can shave off them, and even do a good job, but it is not a comfortable shave.

    It's my understanding that barbers used to keep a barber hone in their pockets to touch up their razors. But as far as I can tell, only the Lithide is capable of serving in that capacity, and even it is not all that great.

    So how did the barbers of old get decent edges on their razors?! Or maybe they didn't. Is it possible that our forbears simply tolerated uncomfortable shaves & thought that was normal? Or did barbers have a few pasted strops in finer grits than their barber hones?

    The cushioned strop hone, in particular, was meant to be glued to a leather pad, serving as a pocket-size hone + strop all-in-one. Which suggests that people were meant to shave right off the C.S. hone. However, the C.S. hone is so coarse & so aggressive, it's almost a bevel-setter, certainly not a finishing hone! (I've shaved off it before, while traveling, and it is not a pleasant experience).

    Anyone have any insights?!

    For the record, my hones, in order of coarse to fine:

    3-Line Swaty (~1K)
    cushioned strop hone
    2-line Swaty
    Gem
    Lithide (~8K)

    The C.S. hone and the 2-line Swaty are close enough to be interchangeable.
    Last edited by Johnny J; 09-04-2008 at 01:51 AM. Reason: typos

  2. #2
    Senior Member blabbermouth ChrisL's Avatar
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    Hmmmmmm. My biggest question is:...what the heck happened to your 3 line Swaty??

    Mine is easily 6000+ in my estimation. I would probably say even higher. It's smoooooth. I had a Lithide and no way was my Lithide finer than the 3 line. Interesting.

    How many laps would you typically do to refresh an edge?

    Thanks.

    Chris L
    "Blues fallin' down like hail." Robert Johnson
    "Aw, Pretty Boy, can't you show me nuthin but surrender?" Patti Smith

  3. #3
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    Yeah, I have a Swaty and an Apart hone that are decent finishers.

    There is a difference between a swaty with 3 lines of text and one that says "three-line", which is yours?

    Barbers did frequently use Coticules and Thuringers, maybe they used some barber hones for rough work and finished on natural stones. I haven't spent enough time reading the old texts to know if that's possible or not, but it's probably the route I'd take if those were the only options available to me.

    I bet you'd be floored by the way a good coticule works.

    (Just try to fight off that HAD facilitation!)

  4. #4
    Junior Member ecohawk's Avatar
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    I have a Swaty that says "3 Line" on it and use both a Norton 4000/8000 and a Thuringian. I use them all both wet and dry. I can positively say that my Swaty is finer than the Norton and somewhat less than the Thuringian. I rarely use the Norton, most commonly the Thuringian and occasionally the Swaty. 30 - 40 strokes on the strop after either "fine" stone is perfect. More work would be necessary after the Norton. I'd have to wonder if your Swaty needs some attention. Just my BFO. ;-p.

  5. #5
    illegitimum non carborundum Utopian's Avatar
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    For at least three years, I have kept a separate rotation of 7 razors in my locker at a gym. I have maintained them exclusively with a Carborundum 102 and a Swaty. I pretty much alternate the two hones simply as my mood strikes me--I consider them to be interchangeable in function and could easily get by with either one alone. Despite having at home a battery of coticules, eschers, a spyderco UF, a Nakayama Asagi, and a Chinese 12K, I have never felt the need to bring any of those razors home for further touch-ups. I wanted to maintain the stuff at the gym in the same manner that an old time shaver would do. That is, with a single quality hone. I've gotten away with it for three years and I don't see the need to change from the way shaving, and honing, was done a hundred years ago.
    Last edited by Utopian; 09-04-2008 at 06:04 AM. Reason: typo

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  7. #6
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    Hmmm, a lot of questions about the Swatys. I bought both of them on Ebay. One says:
    FRANZ SWATY
    WAHRING BEI WIEN
    (AUSTRIA)

    The other says:
    F. SWATY WAHRING
    BEI WIEN (AUSTRIA)

    I lapped both of them with wet/dry on a piece of plate glass when I first got them. The Swaty-3 is pretty close to 1000 grit sandpaper. The Swaty-2 is somewhat finer, but it's closer to the C.S. hone, which I would put around 4K. Not something I would voluntarily shave off of.

    Chris, IDK what's up with the Swatys. Randy has said that barber hones are highly inconsistent. He speculates that my Swaty-3 is from a bad batch. If Swatys are supposed to be sub-8K, I guess the Swaty-2 is from a bad batch as well. But I don't really know. Also, to answer your question, 5-10 laps on the Lithide will refresh an edge that's just starting to go south. I haven't yet tried refreshing on the Chinese stone. I don't know whether I need to do a few laps on a coarser hone first, or whether the Chinese can handle refresh duties all by itself.

    Utopian, I sympathize with your point of view. Actually, since all I have are a bunch of barber hones & one natural stone, I'm shaving the way people did 100 years ago too A good edge could certainly be maintained indefinitely with just the one Lithide hone. But that's tangential to the original question. The question is, since most of the barber hones floating around in the world are too coarse to shave off of comfortably, how is it possible that barbers used them to touch up their razors? The only possibilities I can think of are (a) they compensated with pasted strops, or (b) most people in the 19th century got what we would consider uncomfortable shaves (unless you were lucky enough to have a barber who happened to find a good Swaty and not a bad Swaty).
    Last edited by Johnny J; 09-04-2008 at 10:31 AM.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny J View Post
    The question is, since most of the barber hones floating around in the world are too coarse to shave off of comfortably, how is it possible that barbers used them to touch up their razors?
    I have shaved with a straight for 28 years and, for all of that time until I found SRP in April, all I had was a barber hone, a Swaty that I lost 5 years ago and a NoxAll that I bought off of eBay. Both my barber hones were/are very fine stones. I don't know what happened to yours but I have never heard of a barber hone that coarse. The premise to your question is false (most barber hones are too coarse) and makes no sense to me at all.

  9. #8
    illegitimum non carborundum Utopian's Avatar
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    I believe there were 3.4 million Swatys made. I think the odds of you gettng two duds is unlikely. Given how hard Swatys are, it's impossible to imagine that there is sandpaper grit embedded in it, but I can only guess that somehow you trashed them during lapping. I just can't figure out how!

    When you hold a Swaty up to a light at an angle, it should reflect the light just like a mirror. Do yours do that?

    I also concur with Chimensch that most barber hones are not too coarse.

  10. #9
    what Dad calls me nun2sharp's Avatar
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    Until this week all Ive ever had was barber hones, Ive been straight shaving since '78, exclusively straight shaving for over 10yrs. 1 swaty w/3 lines of text and a Keen Kutter Kombo. As a matter of fact I used the Kombo on one of my Dovos Last night. If your not restoring a blade or trying to fix a chip, A barber hone will get you by. If restoration and repair are your gig, then youll need other hones.
    It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled. Twain

  11. #10
    Still hasn't shut up PuFFaH's Avatar
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    Some barber hones give differing cuts according to the face you use. Also I found they improve with use, in that, after flattening with "wet&Dry" they cut coarser and need use to break them back in.
    I'm of the opinion that barber hones can get an edge on a razor to a high standard. This does not mean that a finer edge can't be achieved with other hones because as well all know, there are finer hones out there now.
    Makeup of steel in times gone by has a bearing on the matter also, though how much is a point for another thread possibly.
    With a well chosen selection of barber hones, you can achieve a great edge to a razor.

    PuFF

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