Thread: Looking for the perfect hone setup.

Originally Posted by Hank Williams

Thanks for the really helpful replies. I'm now leaning toward the Shapton Glassstone route, but I have a few follow up questions. If a go with the Shapton route, what is the lowest grit that I need for bevel setting on a typical Ebay razor? Also, one other question about the Shaptons. Are you really getting the max out of the Shapton 16K if you jump to it directly from the Shapton 8K? Mathematically the jump makes sense, but it seems that this far into the polishing phase that a razor might benefit from some middle ground in between the jump. I have read opinions that state in the case of jumping from the Shapton 8K to the 16K that the full potential of the 16K is not realized. Doubtlessly the 16K will improve the edge after a jump from 8K, but would the final edge be better if I used a coticule, Chinese 12k, or something else in 10K-12K range in between the 8K to 16K Shaptons?

-Hank

If you are talking about fleabay razors, then you want to have at least a 1K hone for setting the bevel.

Originally Posted by Hank Williams

Thanks for the really helpful replies. I'm now leaning toward the Shapton Glassstone route, but I have a few follow up questions. If a go with the Shapton route, what is the lowest grit that I need for bevel setting on a typical Ebay razor? Also, one other question about the Shaptons. Are you really getting the max out of the Shapton 16K if you jump to it directly from the Shapton 8K? Mathematically the jump makes sense, but it seems that this far into the polishing phase that a razor might benefit from some middle ground in between the jump. I have read opinions that state in the case of jumping from the Shapton 8K to the 16K that the full potential of the 16K is not realized. Doubtlessly the 16K will improve the edge after a jump from 8K, but would the final edge be better if I used a coticule, Chinese 12k, or something else in 10K-12K range in between the 8K to 16K Shaptons?

-Hank

It works fine that way, really it does, honest , I swear!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Hank Williams

Also, one other question about the Shaptons. Are you really getting the max out of the Shapton 16K if you jump to it directly from the Shapton 8K?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

It works fine that way, really it does, honest , I swear!!!!!!

+1 with what Glen said. You'll see how fast the 16K starts leaving swarf trails after a small number of passes and you'll realize it takes 8k bevels to a new level in short order. There's no need for anything in between.

BTW, I just noticed today that there's now a Shapton 3K ceramic on glass stone. Brad aka Icedog is going to have to make a 2nd version of his way cool Shapton box!

Chris L

ChrisL,I too have succumbed to the Shapton glass H.A.D.. I just bought the 3K. Now I don't use my Norton's at all. I have the 3K,6K,8K and 16K Shapton's and I'm not turning back!

One thing I have noticed though. As of late, I have began taping the spines of my razors with ONE layer of tape. There is a HUGE difference in the amount of swarf developed on the shapton's not honing the spine. The tape REALLY improves the stones feedback and my results have never been better.

I was also considering a storage solution to protect my hones. I realized I had an unused PELICAN camera case, that I am currently modifying to turn into a "hone box".

Another option worth consideration imho is to stop on the 8000 and proceed to natural stones.

Maybe if I were starting over completely I might get(shapton) 1, 3, 6. I've been wanting to try Japan-tool's sigma power brand , so I would finish off synthetics with that 10,000.

Then you might has well snag onto 400ish and 1200 diamond plates. Both the naniwa and takenoko 8000 are great stones-you can add these in later

For naturals 3 or two european finish stones; a suita and nakayama or two and shoubu(shobu- sp?sorry it's late

Now that is starting to look alittle more like a Perfect hone set up. Hank Williams said: "regardless of price"

Well heck, the perfect honing setup is dead easy, buy one each of everything and get two of the ones you really like!

Conventional wisdom would dictate doubling the grit for each step as in 1k, 2k, 4k, 8k, 16k and 30k in the Shapton line. Of course, not everyone needs to go to such extremes. .5k, 1k, 3k and 6k would be a very nice set for knives and most woodworking tools. You can break the steps down finer but it won't save you any time as you're working less time on each stone but more stones.

Regarding what grit to use to set bevels, I think the advice from the Shapton site is quite valid (with any honing system) even though they are talking about woodworking tools and I quote here:

"The most important concept when using the Shapton system is achieving consistancy at a given grit level before moving up to the next finer stone. At the 2000 grit level, your tool should be perfectly shaped. It is ineffective to attempt to reshape your tool at any finer grit level. If you have built a good foundation at the coarse grit level, very little work will be required at the finer grit levels."

Jumping from 8k to a 0.5 micron pasted strop is valid, it will improve the edge significantly, but that does not mean it works the same as going to a 16k hone first. The end results will be different, not that the results of either aren't good or usable, just different.

Regards

Kaptain "Me? H.A.D.? Whatever are you talking about?" Zero

Hank,I'd like to make one other point. When I first started honing, I would consistently "feel" the blade-repeatedly doing the thumb test,finger nail test and whatever the "sharpness" test of the day was.

TRY NOT TO DO THAT. I found that after all the work on the hones, I was DAMAGING the edge trying to determine how SHARP it was-instead of stropping it and SHAVING.

Shaving is the ONLY way to determine your progress and the closer you get to finishing the razor, the more the edge is finer and more fragile. Touching the edge with anything but your face,at least IMO, is a source of frustration.

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

Well heck, the perfect honing setup is dead easy, buy one each of everything and get two of the ones you really like!



Kaptain "Me? H.A.D.? Whatever are you talking about?" Zero

hehee yeah That sums it up nicely. Though to be clear, when I say a couple european, couple nakayama; I don't mean the same type stone.

On the other hand I can also agree with the short system guys. A minimal selection of the right pieces will get you a job well done. It's just a different mindset I suppose.

For me this is the clencher- never waste time waiting for the perfect set-up for anything before starting. The most important thing (imho) is to get what you can get and get going. ASAP you could spend this morning at your local antique shops, flea market. until you find a razor, get a glass front picture frame for 99 cents; swing by the auto supply for a variety pack of sandpaper and be clean shaven come Monday morning

More great information as usual guys, yet I still have a few more questions. I know Shapton has the 2K, 3K, and 6K in its lineup, but how much utility would these stones have to me? What stones do most of you guys use when you go the Shapton glass stone route? I was thinking of buying the 1K, 4K, 8K, and 16K. Would this be an appropriate progression for razors?

-Hank

Originally Posted by Hank Williams

More great information as usual guys, yet I still have a few more questions. I know Shapton has the 2K, 3K, and 6K in its lineup, but how much utility would these stones have to me? What stones do most of you guys use when you go the Shapton glass stone route? I was thinking of buying the 1K, 4K, 8K, and 16K. Would this be an appropriate progression for razors?

-Hank

Yes it would. I would recommend the Shapton Professional series 2K, 5K,,8K and 15K. You get the same quality of hone with 15mm thickness as opposed to 5mm and the case it comes in serves as a base to hold the stone while you hone and store it when it isn't in use. I have used a friend's 16K glass and it isn't better then the 15K pro IMHO. You can see them here . Good service and prompt response to inquiries or problems.