Thread: The REAL holy grail of hones?

Originally Posted by A_S

I know, according to today's exchane rate 110 Euros (the price on the German site) comes to $140.966, compared to $269.95 at Tools for Working Wood. I'm not knocking Joel's prices here, he is by far and away the cheapest US seller of these stones, the few other sellers I was made aware of were asking $300 and up. I just don't see how these can be the same stones with such a big price difference, especially as that price difference works out costing European consumers less for once
Kind regards,
Alex

Assuming that it is the same stone this puzzles me too. The price comparison of other stones we stock in common are similar so I have only two thoughts - it's older stock and he paid less for it than we did and (probably definitly) I bought my inventory a few months ago when the dollar was low, he bought his when the euro was high, now with the currency's reversed his price is much less expensive - ours stays the same. Incidentally we don't even make our usual markup on these stones I doubt he is either.

All this shows is that in the exciting dynamic world of retailing vendors aresn't selling commodities. If you are comfortable with a vendor, and you like his prices, buy from him. He is also a guy who specializes in razors and I would guess for the members of this forum that's a reason to support him. If in this case the pricing is an accident of currency fluctuation I would buy from him NOW because the Yen is skyrocketing.

Long term I hope you look at our unconditional warretty with us even paying return shipping and our expertise in the sharpening arena. And of course we are local for people in the USA.

joel

Originally Posted by joelmoskowitz

Long term I hope you look at our unconditional warretty with us even paying return shipping and our expertise in the sharpening arena. And of course we are local for people in the USA.

joel

Joel, thanks for commenting here. IMO the very fact that you've posted a reply here publicly speaks to your credibility. I have read your Tools For Working Wood catalog from cover to cover probably over 100 times!! Talk about amazing tools. All my honing film came from that catalog and I'm impressed with what you do. Thanks for being there, Joel.

Chris L

Confusing indeed. The price at Rasurpur is actually 92.44 EUR for American customers- we don't pay the VAT I believe. So today that is actually $115. Also, on Martin's site the Chosera is listed as a new product a of 9/29/08 so it cannot be old stock in my mind. Wouldn't he have listed them way earlier? Anyway- just throwing that out there.

I've now used the Chosera a little more and I'm starting to understand more fully what it does.

It is a 10K grit hone. It is what it says on the box. What it does well is put a grippy hanging hair cutting edge on a razor very efficiently. It's so efficient at doing its job it is a bit frightening. It is also very very easy to use.

But the sharpness is not 50K Cr Ox smoothness. If you are used to shaving using Cr Ox you will still need to polish your Chosera edge with your Cr Ox.

Most natural hones have a grit range that is achieved using the hone surface with slurry or water or even dry. The Chosera does not have this type of flexibility, it does what it does. You seem to get the same result dry or with slurry or with water.

What the Chosera excels at is giving that bitingly sharp edge. Many hones require a learning curve to get the best out of the hone. The Chosera is not like this. It is easy to use and delivers consistent results on all blade types. Just slide the blade forward and back a few times and bingo, the edge is razor sharp. It feels smoother if you use water, but I don't think it changes the result. Guaranteed sharp every time.
Clinical, no finess, boring are words to describe the feeling when you use it but the result can be described as razor sharp, dependable, reliable, efficient, easy.

Will the stand alone Chosera edge beet the 15K Shapton? Probably not, because 10K grit is not 15K grit.
Will the Chosera plus Cr Ox beat the 15K Shapton plus Cr Ox? I think they will be the same but I suspect the Chosera route will achieve the result more consistantly and easily for the inexperienced hone user.

It's the Chosera's ease of use that is the biggest surprise and makes it value for money.

But it's not an essential hone if you already have a coticule and really know how to use it. The Chosera will give the edge you hope to achieve off the coticule with ease and time after time after time. That's all it does, but it is the bit that many struggle with.

Hope this helps the HAD addicts to hold fire a bit longer and wait for some more reviews.

I am curious. The basic concept of most finishing stones is work wet, develop a slurry, and as the blade is worked, and the stone dries the slurry and the stone surface will break down and give you a much finer end finish. This works better with softer abrasives and reports from both the woodworking and kitchen fields suggests that this is exactly what is happening with the Chosera 10K. It has been my experience with people who do not use pressure when sharpening that they don't get the same results as folks who do. Since I am not a razor sharpener I am wondering of a straight razor is too flexible to allow real pressure as compared to woodworking tools and knives when honing and consequently English is fining the stone working as a great 10K nothing more - while other folks in other fields give it credit for much finer finishing. Any thoughts on this?

Joel, I think you're right. Full and extra hollow razor blades are so much more flexible and thin than a chisel or plane iron that the only thing the keeps them in the same category is their keen edges. "Little to no pressure" is the mantra that we may as well have tattooed on our bodies when it comes to final finishing of the razor edges.

I've had a somewhat related experience in searching for a nice Nakayama Asagi stone. The stone had a noticeable cluster of iron pyrite ("fools gold") inclusions that were instantly visible with the unaided eye. When honing razors, the area that would pass over and during the honing process release the inclusions yielded micro-chipping on that part of the edge. I returned the stone to the vendor (who thankfully also has a stellar customer service commitment). He checked it with a chisel or plane iron and reported that the inclusions had no ill effects to those instruments. We concluded that the much more obtuse angle of the woodworking tool bevels allowed for those tools to plow through and be unaffected by the inclusions. It's my understanding that iron pyrite is fairly soft and somewhat friable.

Chris L

Chris,
What this suggests to me is that the 10K Chosera - while and Excellent stone doesn't get it's full potential tapped when sharpening a razor. Doesn't mean it's not at the top rank of razor stones but it does mean that it doesn't get the chance to excel past other stones as it will with knives and other edge tools.

I'm giving a talk at a woodworking conference on sharpening stone abrasives in two weeks and essentially the entire talk is about stuff like this - that is different stones have different characteristics that have nothing to do with grit size.

Originally Posted by Chris L

"Little to no pressure" is the mantra that we may as well have tattooed on our bodies when it comes to final finishing of the razor edges. ChrisL

Come by the tattoo shop and I'll tattoo it free on any SRP member

Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD

Come by the tattoo shop and I'll tattoo it free on any SRP member

Is that a promise?

Font of my choosing?

Originally Posted by Philadelph

Is that a promise?

Font of my choosing?

You got it! Drill baby drill