Thread: Need help with Japanese hones!

Now, I can read German, and SWMBO can read spanish and some french, but I have no resource for Japanese. I am starting out making a hone line up, and I either want to get some Shaptons, or get Nortons and some good finishers (the two arguments being, better to just buy something outright than buy something else and end up spending again to upgrade, vs. since most of my work is maintenance, buy a set workable in the low ranges, but very good in the high ranges as I will mostly only be touching up)
I have a Swaty on the way, and will probably get a Welsh Dragon Tongue. I will experiment between the two as post-8ks. However, what I'm really after is an escher or a japanese stone, both for history and quality reasons. But the trouble is, its hard to bargain hunt japanese stones if you don't know the language.
On the wiki here- Hones - comparison table - Straight Razor Place Wiki- there are a few hones listed near the bottom. However, wherever I look awaseto seems the same as aweseto toishi- it seems toishi is just the word for stone. And am I correct in assuming Awaseto, awaseto, awase-to, awase-do and awasedo are all the same, just translated differently due to japanese using characters, so the phonetics gets messed up? Also, what should I be looking for as far as colour and slurry in the top stones (8k+)? Are they green with black slurry? Any other advise would be great! Thanks!
PS: can anyone tell me what the famous samurai's used?

Contact to OLD_SCHOOL i am sure he will help you out.

I don't know much about Japanese stones, but if you're looking into natural japanese ones I would recommend our very own OLD_SCHOOL as he sells ones that he tests himself. He has some for sale on his site now: Japanese whetstones

I just purchased one from him recently, and it is sure to arrive on Monday, so I cannot as of yet personally account for it's quality, although I am absolutely certain it will be fantastic.

There are other japenese stone vendors, such as Japan Tool - Natural Sharpening Stones but I personally find all of that information overwhelming. It is indeed hard to find a good place to purchase nice japanese finishers, especially if you don't speak Japanese!

But if you're serious about it, look into OLD_SCHOOL's stones, as he'll be able to answer your questions.

Nice Japanese natural stones are not cheap, but are well worth the investment if you are looking for a quality finishing stone.

EDIT: I just realized Sham beat me to it .

I know he does. And I popped him an email. The thing is, I think his stones are a little out of my budget, but I think there are a couple cheaper options, I just need to figure out if they are right or not.

Originally Posted by khaos

The thing is, I think his stones are a little out of my budget, but I think there are a couple cheaper options, I just need to figure out if they are right or not.

Right, and there is no way to find out without trying them yourself or have somebody with experience try them out and tell you. In my opinion that's well worth the extra cost. Hones are expensive in Japan as well and generally you get what you pay for, unless you get really lucky and the person who sold you the hones are a bit clueless themselves.

Anyway I look at it, just doesn't seem worth the risk.

Originally Posted by khaos

But the trouble is, its hard to bargain hunt japanese stones if you don't know the language.

I'd advise to not bargain hunt them. In my view there's no point on gambling with expensive items, especially if all you want is one or two.
Just wait until you have the finances and the experience and buy one that is of known quality. How to find such one? Buy it from a vendor that has experience with them for sharpening razors. Both So and OLD_SCHOOL use straight razors (not sure if So uses western ones, but it probably doesn't make that much of a difference) and I'm pretty sure they'll try the stone and know how it behaves before selling it to you.

If you want to know about the stamps on these stones OLD_SCHOOL had a thread sometime ago with the main stamps. But the stamps won't tell you how the stone behaves, just where it's mined, trademarks and some quality assurances iirc. And, of course, you pay (sometimes a lot) extra for the stamps even if you need to lap them out before using the stone

His stamps are very useful, but there are quite a few he doesn't have... those are mostly the stamps on his rocks... :-(

I got a very nice Nakayama from So (150 Aus$) + shipping.

Not all the Nakayamas on his site are suitable for final polishing straights. But if you tell him what you need he'll sort you out.

Stones seems to always fall one of two ways Natural or Synthetic....

Natural fans have a wee bit of romance about their stones, no offense but you guys do

Us synthetic users are more about outright performance,,,

Natural Guy "Oh it is so smooth"
Synthetic Guy "Oh it is so sharp"

Natural Guy " It takes 100 laps, as light as a feathers touch"
Synthetic Guy "20 laps and I am done"

Natural Guy "Well if you want the most out of yer stone you have to learn about raising a slurry"
Synthetic Guy "What's a slurry"???


Natural Guy "Well my stone gives a great finish, yours must have been mined 100 feet higher"
Synthetic Guy "They are all the same, just do 20 light laps and yer done"


Natural Guy "I spent $300 on a chunk -o-rock
Synthetic Guy " I spent $300 on an entire honing system"

Small differences out there....

From reading your post I would recommend for you the Norton Starter set 220/1000 - 4k/8k and the lapping stone for $120 on Amazon this covers everything you might throw at it...

Then get the Shapton Sweet 16 from SRD for $94 and you are set for stones

I would recommend the DMT 325 for lapping all of these BTW.....

That would outfit you for about $250 including shipping....

I know this system works, I used it for about a year before I bought the full set of Shapton's

The other nice option out there is the Naniwa Super Stones Lynn isn't kidding, they do work slick as snot...
You could get the 1k-5k-8k-12k with the 325 DMT and be set for life....

Just giving you the other side of the coin....

As sexy and romantic some natural stones are, I have to agree with Glen what what he said. Speaking from purely a performance standpoint, synthetics are very good and reliable.

But hey, there's absolutely nothing wrong with having some beautiful natural rocks lying around.