I have seen my 00 Frictionite burnished using dry, kind of a glossed over appearance, but I have not seen it on the C12K, even using dry. My "Chinese" is an undetermined grit, but judging from the way it takes a long time to get anywhere, the grit must be pretty small. The bevel under 20X is really bright and polished. So, yes, with Ron, I don't think that you can really nail down the grit on these as you might get some soft and some really hard stones over the period of time and probably the TONS of rock quarried and sold around. We here at the forum just here about a small amount of these hones and feedback. How many of these hones are out there that the user knows nothing of this or other forum, and some may not even use the internet....shocking isn't it?