Thread: Anyone who knows japanese hones, please read and help

So I have been doing a lot of reading on this lately, and somewhere I read that Nakayama Karasu are typically the most fine and rare J-Nat out there. Is this true?
Also, I was told by someone that of the colours, Nashiji, or pear surface pattern, is TYPICALLY (but like always, not always) the best kind of J-Nat for razors. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Another I have heard is good is mizu, or water colour surface, but the aforementioned individual would still go with nashiji. Any thoughts?

I have that impression from what I have read. Doing a search for Karasu yielded this here.

Well I know a Nakayama Karasu is very rare and expensive, so I guess that means it works well! I'm not sure how features such as Nachiji affect the honing qualities of the stone, but I think it is more rare. I know when it comes to natural stones 2 variables come into play in determining the price: rarity and performance. I think OLD_SCHOOL would be your best candidate to directing questions about Japanese stones. I recently picked up a Nakayama Maruichi from him, but other than my stone I don't really know much about them.

I could be wrong but I think all of his are pear coloured (Nashiji). Hopefully he'll stop by. There are actually a few members who have several J-Nats and use them, like Zethlent and KevinT

It is very hard to generalise about J nats, although from my understanding there are some attributes that might make a particular stone more suitable than others for a certain purpose. You just need to bear in mind that as with any natural item, there is variability from individual to individual.

Generally the Nakayama quarry produces good stones for our purposes. I have indeed heard that the Karasu is among the most rare, but whether that is because the colour and markings are rare, or whether it is because the cutting action and fineness is rare, I am uncertain.

What I do know is that when considering a J nat as a hone, you would do well to consult a seller who actually uses and tests all his/her stones, because you will be buying an individual stone, with its own individual characteristics. For example, there are good Suita stones, and terrible ones, often from the same quarry and even perhaps the same strata/vein. Simply buying an Oozuku Suita because generally they are thought to be OK is a recipe for potential disaster.

Makes sure whomever you buy from has experience using these stones, has used the actual stones you are interested in, and offers a full money-back policy if for any reason you are unhappy.

Good luck!

James.

I have already bought one, I am just curious now, as I may have found someone selling a Karasu reasonably cheaply, and the other questions were just out of curiousity.

In my conversations with So Yamasheeta (deliberate mis-spelling) he told me a main reason lighter coloured stones are more prized among the Japanese stones is because it is easier to see what is happening with swarf etc. You can get more precise outcomes on a lighter stone. So yeah, I imagaine water coloured surfaces would be ok, as long as the other attributes (hardness, fineness, speed, etc) are appropriate for razors.

A lot of my J nats are the tan or green coloured ones, but I have an Asagi which is very light blue, and a couple of Suita that are almost white with redish bits, and another stone that is basically completely white. To be honest, I just make sure I use proper honing technique when I use my stones - being able to see the swarf is a bonus I guess, but not an absolute necessity. But then, maybe I am honing wrong!

James.

The white with redbits is a Suita Renge I think, also apparently very rare. So what you're saying is its basically a crapshoot, theres not general guide to colour? (As there is with eschers, where typically some colours are MORE LIKELY (but not necessarily) better than other.
Thanks.

I agree with the above so will only add that I think the issue about the Nashiji is that they are punctate spots of a slightly different material in the stone that generally lead to faster cutting.

Originally Posted by khaos

The white with redbits is a Suita Renge I think, also apparently very rare. So what you're saying is its basically a crapshoot, theres not general guide to colour? (As there is with eschers, where typically some colours are MORE LIKELY (but not necessarily) better than other.
Thanks.

Well, I would not go so far as to say it is a complete crapshoot, especially if you are buying from a reputable person.

But with the J nats I think it is less about the colour, and more about the quarry.

Here is some interesting info from So's site about natural Japanese stones. Not too much talk of colour there.

Japan Tool - Technique&Knowledge - Awasedo

Japan Tool - Technique&Knowledge - Natural Stone Mines

James.