Thread: Hone Test: BBW vs DT

No, this isn't with the Ducks that I nabbed. It turns out I got a pair of identical W. Taylor quarter hollow's in a lot and they came today. I set the bevel on both of them tonight, and tomorrow hone testing will commence.

My first test will be my BBW (Belgian Blue Waterstone) vs a DT (Dragon's Tongue) that I have on loan. In the past, I have used these two stones at the same place in my progression: I move to them with a slurry and slowly dilute straight after I set a bevel on my King 1k. For this test, I will use the BBW on one blade and the DT on the other. I will hone with a slurry and dilute till I end up with just water. I will then strop and shave test the pair of blades. This should tell me two things. First, it will allow me to compare the edge that each hone can produce. It will also give me an idea of what the edge off each hone needs (I've never shaved off either hone, and I'm curious how it will go).

I realize that these hones are naturals, so each DT and each BBW is different, but this might give others some insight.

In the future, I plan do to similar testing with the Dwarfs I have coming, and perhaps also with a pair of Mappins that are on their way.

Here's a picture to get you started. (In case you can't read, they are frosted "Fine India Steel." They are about 13/16, quarter hollow, with barber's notches in horn scales, and I'm assuming they are Sheffield blades.)

The suspense is killing me already...get to it man! LOL
Very cool experiment...i dont think the two have been compared before...at least, not that im aware of.

Thanks,

Mac

am I getting this right, you are going to shave directly from a blue belgian, without pasting afterwards? this will surely be interesting.
So far I have only shaved from a chro'xed BBW blade with good results.

But you should consider putting at least one stone between bbw or dt.
The King 1k isn´t the most consistent one
and both hones are considerably slow.
So what you could get instead of the bbw or dt-edge could be a hardly refined 1k edge.
I would recommend a 2k,3k or 4k in between,
because bbw as well as dt are likely to be finer than 3k.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

My first test will be my BBW (Belgian Blue Waterstone) vs a DT (Dragon's Tongue) that I have on loan. In the past, I have used these two stones at the same place in my progression...

That's interesting and not at all like my experience, but as you say they are natural stones - perhaps you have experienced a very fine BBW and a very poor DT?

I know the BBWs can be very fine - Rod from Ardennes Coticule selected a curious one for me, with light and dark inclusions that cuts almost as fine and fast as some yellows. Almost. The DT hones I have had experience of have all been much the same - I'd shave after finishing with the DT (and have done frequently) but I haven't even considered shaving after honing on a BBW - perhaps I should, you never know...!

I don't think I have enough patience to go from the 1k to DT - I think my arm would drop off first. Cheap alternative to barbells, though. I don't even have the patience to go from a 1k to BBW, a 2k fits in between for my own particular purposes.

I too am thrilled to see you make a reliable comparison of these two stones. I haven't taken the time to really get to know my DT, and look forward to reading your findings!

I tried to multi quote both Neil and Christopher but that button isn't working again on my box.

Dylan that is a cool experiment. Like Christopher I haven't done anything with my DT yet and like Neil I don't have the patience to go from the 1k to the the DT.

Those are a lovely pair of blades pictured there. Seems like the RAD is in full bloom.

Hm, I found the comments about not going straight from the King 1k to the BBW/DT to be interesting. My progression has always been King 1k, BBW, Coti (with the C12k added in after the coti once I got one). I have heard that the King 1k can be inconsistant, but mine consistantly works for me. Also, if I'm not mistaken, I believe I read somewhere on here that due to different grit rating systems, the King 1k is more like the Norton 4k, though I could easily be wrong there.

Either way, I know that King 1k -> BBW -> finishers works; that is not something I'm trying to test out. The questions are, how does the BBW compare to the DT and how far do these stones take the edge.

I'm not expecting that either blade will give a particularly comfortable shave, and I'm planning on having another razor on hand and ready to go.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Hm, I found the comments about not going straight from the King 1k to the BBW/DT to be interesting. My progression has always been King 1k, BBW, Coti (with the C12k added in after the coti once I got one). I have heard that the King 1k can be inconsistant, but mine consistantly works for me. Also, if I'm not mistaken, I believe I read somewhere on here that due to different grit rating systems, the King 1k is more like the Norton 4k, though I could easily be wrong there.

I have found the King stones to be very consistent: I sold one and regretted it - didn't like the Norton low-grit alternative - and have had two since then - one still going strong. I used to go straight to BBW or 6000 after the 1000 King, but as I hone so much now slipping in an internediate 2000 grit speeds things up, otherwise I'd still be doing the same as you.

I have re-read your original posting, but I can't quite get what you are trying to find - I have never found a DT as coarse as a BBW, and wouldn't rate the BBW anywhere near to being a finisher whereas I would call the DT a finisher.

One member did a review here in which he tested a coticule and a DT.

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

I have found the King stones to be very consistent: I sold one and regretted it - didn't like the Norton low-grit alternative - and have had two since then - one still going strong. I used to go straight to BBW or 6000 after the 1000 King, but as I hone so much now slipping in an internediate 2000 grit speeds things up, otherwise I'd still be doing the same as you.

I have re-read your original posting, but I can't quite get what you are trying to find - I have never found a DT as coarse as a BBW, and wouldn't rate the BBW anywhere near to being a finisher whereas I would call the DT a finisher.

One member did a review here in which he tested a coticule and a DT.

Thanks for that link - I'd not seen it before. You'll note about halfway down that after lapping the DT he got different results. I also didn't see any mention of what the tester did to obtain the results in the first test, but if it was just "lapping" washers, I'm not sure how to apply those results to razors. A mirror finish does not necessarily correlate to the best shaving edge, and I'd have to assume that the metal in washers is different from razors. There is no indication of how cutting speed was determined - was it how long it took to get to the final finish or how quickly metal was removed? The last post says the DT polishes quickly but removes metal slowly - I have no idea what that means...

I'd really not read or heard much about the DT (I don't go into the honing sections often), so I was thinking up this test with very little background knowledge. I'd also doing the test for my own benefit - I'm testing hones I use against each other, and hones that seem comparable to me in my progression. I'm just sharing my results in case anyone else is interested.

On that note, off to the hones...

For the record, here are some pics of the BBW and DT that I'm using. Both are lapped. I'm not sure how the DT was lapped (McWolf lent her tome), but the BBW was lapped with a DMT-C and then a three line Swaty and has since been used with a slurry. I have also used the DT with a slurry. Identical slurry stones were used on both. Neither stone is porous - water beads on both (though I have found that after rubbing both with slurry stones, water tends not to bead nearly as much).

For each set, the first shot is dry, the second is wet. First you'll see both stones side by side, then my attempts at macro shots of the BBW and then my attempts at macro shots of the DT. Refer to the image names if you get confused.