Thread: Questions regarding: Hones vs. paste and Shaptons

In keeping with gssixgun's maxim, here is my context:
I am new to straight razors and I need to be able to maintain my own razors. I have no interest in honing ebay specials, repairing major edge issues or taking a blade from butter knife to shave ready (all of that work is going SRD). I am looking to pick up a hone or two to touch up my own razors. So my thinking at the moment is either 1) Naniwa 12k and CrO paste, 2) Shapton 16k and 30k.

1) On Lynn's video the CrO on his counter indicates that it is 0.5 micron grit. The Shapton 30k is 0.49 micron grit. Does the edge that results from using either one differ that much since the grit size is basically the same?

2) I have read on other threads that Shaptons work best when you use them as a system. Is this true (it was mentioned in passing on the thread)? Or can (or should) I mix and match with other stones or paste.

3) Is it really a matter of personal preference? Some people like pastes and others don't? I have seen threads that indicate that the edge from a hone is more durable than from pastes. Is this true?

I have seen other threads comparing the 12k versus 16k, the overall merit of the 30k, numerous threads on pastes and the various "acquisition disorders" I need to watch out for.

Thanks,
Adrian.

All I can really chime in with is a note about pastes. Pastes are great for smoothing out an edge or giving you a touch up, but they will round the edge slightly. This means that, while you can maintain an edge for quite some time using paste, at some point it will get to a point where you will have to return to hones (just the paste won't help anymore). The slight rounding that pastes leave is part of why blades off paste feel very smooth as well as sharp.

I'm hardly an authority but here is my opinion. You say you just want to maintain sharp razors, so if it was me here's how I would do it. You will need a finish hone and they come in several flavors. I'll go with less expensive up. First the peoples hone of indeterminate grit (chinese 12k). It's slow but can put a nice edge on a razor used properly. Next either the Shapton 16k or Naniwa 12k. I haven't tried the Naniwa so can't comment on its performance but I do have a Shapton 16k and it will put a very sharp edge on good steel. Going up in price are the thuringian stones which include the Escher stones. Some razors really love these stones and not only take a sharp edge,but a comfortable sharp edge. For about the same cost as an Escher stone(and on up in cost) you might be able to get a nice japanese hone and although I don't have one (yet) I hear they are as good as it gets. Along with some of these finishers you may get some benefit from a bench strop with Chrome Ox or diamond paste. Perhaps some of the honemiesters can give better info but that's my 2 cents worth.

All I can really chime in with is a note about pastes...

...Along with some of these finishers you may get some benefit from a bench strop with Chrome Ox or diamond paste.

I'm a bit hessitant regarding pastes because I've read on the forums that they tend to leave a wire edge (True?). Given my beard, it worries me a little.


Thanks,
Adrian.

Originally Posted by stygian

In keeping with gssixgun's maxim, here is my context:
First off thank you for a very complete overview of what you are doing and what you expect the hones to do for you...


I am new to straight razors and I need to be able to maintain my own razors. I have no interest in honing ebay specials, repairing major edge issues or taking a blade from butter knife to shave ready (all of that work is going SRD). I am looking to pick up a hone or two to touch up my own razors. So my thinking at the moment is either 1) Naniwa 12k and CrO paste, 2) Shapton 16k and 30k.

1) On Lynn's video the CrO on his counter indicates that it is 0.5 micron grit. The Shapton 30k is 0.49 micron grit. Does the edge that results from using either one differ that much since the grit size is basically the same?

They are not the same there is really no correlation between grits in paste form and hone form within reason ...

2) I have read on other threads that Shaptons work best when you use them as a system. Is this true (it was mentioned in passing on the thread)? Or can (or should) I mix and match with other stones or paste.

They do as used to go from bevel to shaving edge IMHO but using a 16k for touch ups is a different context...

3) Is it really a matter of personal preference? Some people like pastes and others don't? I have seen threads that indicate that the edge from a hone is more durable than from pastes. Is this true?

You can find threads of the exact opposite opinion too, at this moment in time there seems to be a slight undercurrent that using pastes is cheating somehow.... Me I believe in the most comfortable shave I can get Period !!!

I have seen other threads comparing the 12k versus 16k, the overall merit of the 30k, numerous threads on pastes and the various "acquisition disorders" I need to watch out for.

Either the Naniwa 12k or the Shapton 16k will do everything you will want.. combine that with the SRD hard felt strop and some selective pastes you will be unstoppable for what you want... I really don't think you need the 30k but YMMV



Thanks,
Adrian.

There you go thats my opinion I am sure you will get more....

Lynn made a comment the other day about pastes to the effect that they do well, but he has had trouble with consistent results. One time, OK. The next, not so well. I think I remember the gist. I'll look up the comment if anyone is interested.

Pastes are cheaper, and for a few more months I'm "on the cheap." I am getting good edges with pastes. But, from all the comments and recommendations of others, I'm planning on upgrading in the future.

Slightly off topic about pastes...

http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...xperiment.html


As you can read in that thread quite a few very knowledgeable people and quite a few different opinions there...

As far as maintaining the edge, pastes will work fine. If you're interested in picking up those stones, then either choice should be fine as well, though I'd still follow the 30k with CrO (and Cerium Oxide, I like that stuff). Personally though, I consider the 30k unnecessary, I'd only get it if I was interested in experimenting with the edges some.

Originally Posted by stygian

...
3) Is it really a matter of personal preference? Some people like pastes and others don't? I have seen threads that indicate that the edge from a hone is more durable than from pastes. Is this true?
...

I stopped using pastes because I thought #3 applied to me. Could also have been the way I used the paste (0.5 green CrO). Pastes are easy to use and do give a great edge.

I am personally in the "no paste" camp. It's worth trying, to see how it works for you. I don't usually hone at more than 16k because, for me, I think the edge gets too sharp.

Don't rule out Diamond Spray. I find it the best all around finishing product there is. I finish ever razor on it and I know so does Lynn. It is much more consistent then paste and brings out the best in an edge.