Thread: More Tests with a Dragon's Tongue - no slurry

So I've finally got a Dragon's Tongue of my own. Previously, I had been using one on loan from McWolf which was shortened a bit (in order to make a slurry stone). As of last night, I'm using a full sized (8 x 2.5) Dragon's Tongue of my own.

These things to arrive with a rough surface, so I lapped mine with my DMT-C and then smoothed her out with a Spyderco Medium pocket hone that I still have around. When I'd opened the box, I noticed that only one face of the hone had the edges ... what's the word when you take off harsh edges? Well anyway, I decided to lap that face. It was a quick process, and caused no trouble.

So on with the testing. I was honing six blades: A 5/8 Wostenholm wedge, a Wostenholm frameback, a W&B Bow, a full hollow Joseph Allen, a 3/4ish hollow Ontario Cutlery Barber's Special, and a 3/4ish hollow Worchester Razor Co. Each razor had her bevel set on my King 1k.

I took the six razors straight off the King 1k and used the same method for each on the Dragon's Tongue. Each razor got three sets of 50 passes with just water. In between each set, I rinsed the hone off and wiped off the bevel and spine of the razor (to remove the metal buildup). After each set, there was some blackening on the toilet paper I was using to wipe down the blades. So that's a total of 150 passes per blade, no slurry, just water. I know that sounds like a lot, but my idea is that I'll start high and work my way down instead of starting low and working my way up.

This time around, I did not shave straight off the Dragon's Tongue, but I did take each blade straight off the DT and shave just a small bit of my cheek, just to see what they would do. Mind you, this was totally dry shaving in the midst of honing, not a prepped, lathered shave. Each blade pulled a fair bit (by no means comfortable), but it wasn't painful either. Oh, and they all cut hairs too. I'm not really sure why I did this test, but I did.

Anyway, I wanted to finish the razors before shaving, so next I pullet out my PHIG (People's Hone of Indeterminate Grit - or C12k, if you prefer) and gave the Sheffield razors (Wosty's, the Allen, and the Bow) 100 passes (two sets of 50 with a rinse in between). For the American razors (Ontario and Worchester), I did 75 passes each on my Asagi (these were being honed for another member, so I thought I'd show him what the Asagi can do).

And on to the shave test. I want to preface by saying that I was trying a shave stick for the first time, so I didn't have great lather. I tried the two American blades first and they shaved just as smooth as anything else that I've ever run over my Asagi. Next up was the Wosty frameback, and she cut totally effortlessly. The Joseph Allen also gave a fantastic shave. The W&B Bow... well something must have gone wrong somewhere, because she was not quite ready (I might not have totally removed the little frown she'd started with). And I did not test the Wosty wedge yet.

So here are, in my opinion, the results of the test. This new progression of setting the bevel on my King 1K, 150 passes on the DT, 100 on the PHIG/75 on the Asagi seems to work quite nicely. The PHIG and the Asagi both leave fantastic edges, but I still find the edges off the Asagi to be a bit smoother. And this Wosty frameback - I've sort of been looking for a frameback to add to my rotation, and this might be the one. She shaved so well that I choose her for all my touchup work. I am very, very impressed.

So in the future, I'll be playing with dropping the number of strokes on the DT, but, I have to say, I'm very impressed with her too. On Sheffield and American steel, she worked wonders. And, what I'm happiest with, is that I didn't need to use a slurry. Not needing a slurry makes the honing process much more straightforward, in my opinion, as does using only three stones. So, if you're looking for a very cheap honing progression, the King 1k, DT, PHIG might be something to look into. I don't know what shipping on the DT is like, but IIRC it's around $20 for the hone, and the King 1K and PHIG are $20 each.

I noticed that only one face of the hone had the edges ... what's the word when you take off harsh edges?

chamfered?

I got my DT this summer from a generous member (thanks, Mark!). He'd lapped it flat, but it still seemed a little rough to the touch. Last week, I finally got around to slapping some wet/dry on glass and smoothing the face up through P2000.

By the time I was done - wow. It now has every bit the glassy feel that my C12k does. Similar (lack of) feedback when honing, too. I shaved off of it comfortably, but I can't really tell what it's doing without magnification. Pretty stone, though, especially when wet.

Yes, chamfered - that's the word.

Yup, these do get glassy smooth when lapped. I do find, however, that I get a nice suction as the blade becomes keen, though that's the only real feedback I get. That's also part of the reason I like it more than my BBW (my BBW gives no feedback - it's also slower so it requires a slurry, and it's smaller).

Thanks for the review Dylan. I have a DT and I think I played around with it a bit last year when I got it. I ordered mine after the DT had gotten a fair amount of press on the forum so they were out of stock when I placed my order.

It was a couple of months before the quarry supplied the vendor and I finally got it delivered to my door. Subsequent posters got theirs much more quickly so if they are in stock the shipping is reasonably speedy from what I've heard.

Your review has kick started me into getting mine out and giving it a go. I really like the idea of honing an old Sheffield on a stone native to the UK that was around when the razors were made a century of more ago. I have a few in the queue that I can pick from and one of them happens to be a W&B Bow that I actually got locally in trade for of all things a tattoo.

I have used my DT very little. I did take one razor to it and used the DT as a final stone prior to shave. I was trying to determine what grit equivalent I'd give it based on the shave. I had the same experience you did dry shaving, only I shaved with a decent lather. It pulled, but was sharp enough to complete a shave with no irritation. I did take longer to shave with the razor than I normally would because of the pull. On easy areas, I would categorize the DT honed razor as having more resistance rather than a pull. On my chin, under my nose there was some pull. Based on the FEELING of the shave and without playing around with the stone more than I have, I would say it falls somewhere in the 6k range. Just an opinion; everyone take it with a big grain of salt.

Like Jimmy though, your post does make me want to try it more and see if I feel the same way that I did after that quick test.

Chris L

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Your review has kick started me into getting mine out and giving it a go. I really like the idea of honing an old Sheffield on a stone native to the UK that was around when the razors were made a century of more ago. I have a few in the queue that I can pick from and one of them happens to be a W&B Bow that I actually got locally in trade for of all things a tattoo.

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Based on the FEELING of the shave and without playing around with the stone more than I have, I would say it falls somewhere in the 6k range. Just an opinion; everyone take it with a big grain of salt.

Like Jimmy though, your post does make me want to try it more and see if I feel the same way that I did after that quick test.

Chris L

Jimmy, sounds like a pretty good trade. I really like the Bow's. This one that I was testing is quite different from others that I've had (the tang says Sheffield England, and the razor looks quite a bit newer than others I've had).

Chris, I'm glad you shared your grit approximation. McWolf, who got me into the DT's, estimated around 6-8k, so you guys are in the same ballpark.

I'm glad I've motivated you two to get back on the DT's. I think it's a great stone, especially given the price point.

I don't think anyone has used the hone enough to find if the grit gets finer with continued usel. Is there a way to simulate that?

I suppose one could rub it with a chisel or other piece of steel, like the way some people break in their DMT's. Not something I feel like doing, though.

Originally Posted by Pyment

I don't think anyone has used the hone enough to find if the grit gets finer with continued usel. Is there a way to simulate that?

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

I suppose one could rub it with a chisel or other piece of steel, like the way some people break in their DMT's. Not something I feel like doing, though.

I don't know that it gets finer, but after lapping mine, which like you said becomes very smooth I grabbed the DT during a session of sharpening a handful of chisels and plane irons for a friend of mine. IIRC I had brought the faces and bevels of those tools up to 8k Shapton glass stone grit and I wanted to see if there was a noticeable difference in scratch pattern. I used pretty heavy pressure on the dry DT. It glazed very heavily almost right away with a metallic sheen and then all but stopped polishing. It seemed once glazed to become completely ineffective. I've done this with some of my harder coticules and they take much longer to develop a glazing and still seem to polish although less so. I don't polish edged tools dry on stones, I do sometimes test new stones that way to get an idea of how they cut and behave. I don't know what that tells us about the DT, just an added point of interest with that stone.

Chris L

Thanks for sharing about the glazing. It's not something I've noticed yet, but it's definitely something to watch out for. Given how smooth the DT is, I guess it makes sense that it would glaze so fast.

That also suggests that the DT won't get any finer with use, because the surface will have to be refreshed rather often.

Did you notice a difference between thet Norton 8k and DT scratch patterns? I find that the DT leaves a lightly hazy, close to mirrored finish.