Thread: Grit to follow 8000

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

My understanding is that, when using a slurry, you are not only cutting on the bevel (which rests against the stone), but also on the edge as you run into the slurry and some is deflected above the edge and some is forced under the edge. The effects may be minimal, but at a finishing level, you'll still notice them. Some like the slight rounding, as it may cause a razor to feel "smoother" while shaving.

To answer the original poster's question, I think that after the 8k you can move to any finisher you like. I believe there is more room to jump at high grits than is typically acknowledge. For example, I go from my Dragon's Tongue (which is estimated at 6-8k) to my Asagi (and Japanese natural finishers are thought to be very high grit) and need less than 70 passes on the Asagi to finish (I'm experimenting with reduced stroke numbers to work my way down).

From Zowada's fantastic website:

Coticle with slurry:


Coticle without slurry:


Check out the site yourself. CH12K looks to give as fine an edge as anything out there (when wielded by Mr. Zowada, anyhow...)

I'm pretty much going to repeat what everyone else has been saying the whole time, but I'll say it anyways. A lot of new honers want to get a bunch of fancy stones, thinking it will kick up the sharpness and improve their shaves. A lot of times, for new guys, the blade is sharp enough when they get it from someone on here or another site though. If you don't have a good understanding of stretching the hairs to stand up, not down flat, and how to hold your razor, you're not going to get a good shave regardless of hones.

If you're getting good shaves and stropping well on a razor you've received in the mail, then maybe it's time to get some hones for touch ups. A Swaty barber's hone is really all you need for that, a CrO strop helps too.
Once you think you're going to get old razors and practice setting bevels, a DMT 1200 or a 1000grit hone is great, then move to a Norton 4/8K.

The norton stone is my favorite. It taught me how to hone without having 60 different stones to mess up edges on. I still, to this day, only use a dmt 1200 for bevels, a Norton 4-8K combo stone, and then finish on either a Coticule, or a Swaty or a CrO strop.

You can shave right off the 8K without anything else or stropping on Leather, I've done it, and it really helps show you what you need to learn on the hones, moving up to pastes and high grits won't fix what a poor shave off the 8K has concerned you.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Took the words outta my mouth !!!



Shaptons are a little different animal, and IMHO an easier system to use...
The Shapton stones if you are paying attention pretty much toss a huge flag up to the user when it is time to switch stones....and this is a big deal when learning. When do I move to the next higher grit???

Learning on the Nortons gives a very solid base of knowledge since there are so many tricks to them...

Also I would like to point out that many people always reccomend a Ch12k for a beginer polishing stone (it's cheap) and although there is nothing wrong with the stone, I never reccomend something that takes, on an average 100 laps to work... There are just way to much many chances of error in those 100 laps for a new honer...

Glen, what would you recommend as an alternative to the C12K? I think I'm ready to go up one level, and am not wanting to go crazy, just one more really nice finishing hone for a reasonable price, and maybe that will be the last one I buy for a very long time. I've got the Norton set and the C12K, plus a Swaty, but I think there's just one more that I might need, because the C12K is so darn slow.

Glen,
How would you describe the flag that pops up when using a given Shapton, a flag that says, "O.K., you are ready to quit this stone now"?

In other words, what should one be looking or feeling for?

Originally Posted by figaro

Glen,
How would you describe the flag that pops up when using a given Shapton, a flag that says, "O.K., you are ready to quit this stone now"?

In other words, what should one be looking or feeling for?

for me its when I star feel the razor bite the stone, you feel the bevel slide on the stone.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

From Zowada's fantastic website:


Check out the site yourself. CH12K looks to give as fine an edge as anything out there (when wielded by Mr. Zowada, anyhow...)

You know, there's always been something that bothered me about the CH12K picture in that series. Tim reports "ten strokes were used on each side of the blade". Now, coming off an 8k, how the heck does a CH12K make that beautiful, shockingly clean edge in TEN STROKES??!

When the norm is at least 50 before it seems to do much of anything?

Have any of you guys with microscopes seen a CH12K do THAT in ten strokes?





[EDIT: I don't mean to sound like I'm questioning Tim's word or anything - far from it. I just can't get that darned picture out of my head once I get up past stroke 140 or so. ]

interestingly, I didn´t try doing it in 10 strokes.
I always, even before I got the stone, thought I need over 50 strokes.
Maybe someone should just try it.

Use a Norton 8k or maybe a Nani 5k (8k is way too polished)
and do 10, 20 and 40 C12k strokes and see what happens.
Unfortunately I don´t have a C12k anymore

Wow! Those photos of razor edges on the other site are amazing. I was thinking about getting a 4000/8000 and following up with a paste on a balsa hone. From the photos it looks like that may be a great start for a newbie. Still need to work on my stropping, however.

Great stuff here. Thanks.

Originally Posted by brothers

Glen, what would you recommend as an alternative to the C12K? I think I'm ready to go up one level, and am not wanting to go crazy, just one more really nice finishing hone for a reasonable price, and maybe that will be the last one I buy for a very long time. I've got the Norton set and the C12K, plus a Swaty, but I think there's just one more that I might need, because the C12K is so darn slow.

I really wasn't kidding when I said "any" finisher will work after a Norton 8k...
Feel wise I would go the Naniwa 12k myself, the feel of the stone will be rather similar... But honestly I have tried just about everything after it...

Glen is quite right in saying that you can use anything. An 8k is good enough to shave off, so anything that is finer will make the shave better. You could do 1 pass on a C12k and the razor would still be "shave ready," because it was shave ready to begin with.

There are so many finishers out there, and they all work. Some may give a smoother shave or a slightly keener edge, but I really think that, for finishers, it's more a question of how good your honing is in the first place and which hone you personally prefer (maybe the finish it gives, but also cutting speed, feedback, ease of lapping/refreshing, size, cost, etc).