Thread: Put me out of my misery - Naniwas or Coticule

I might take a set of Naniwa's if someone gave em to me, but I wouldn't buy any. Not saying anything bad about them, just that I prefer "naturals" as well LOL...in ALL aspects

Originally Posted by StraightRazorDave

Although I've never used the Naniwas, I'm sure they would offer more consistency than a coticule/BBW. But, if you are in it for the love of honing and don't mind a little more a challenge, I would definitely go for the coti/BBW. It takes a bit more practice since each stone is different, but I've always had more satisfaction honing on a natural stone. So my vote is for the coti/BBW.

DISCLAIMER: I am hugely biased towards natural stones, so please keep that in mind when reading my recommendation.

Right onDave! I agree whole heartedly! MikeB

I have used and own both. The naniwa's are easier and they are all exactly the same.

Coticules are like a woman. You dont know what you have when you first get it. You go on a few dates, discover what its likes and dislikes are.

Then you live happily ever after or cheat on it with an escher.

Originally Posted by JimR

(FWIW, I've used both, but I didn't give the coti enough time/patience, sold it and am regretting it. Another should be on its way soon...)

I sold mine and haven't regretted it at all. Good riddance to it.
As coticules go, it was not a bad one at all, but I am not partial to them. Ever since I switched to Japanese naturals, I hadn't touched it anymore.

I like artificial stones especially for setting bevels, because they are faster (relatively speaking of course) and more predictable. I am free of HAD (as long as I stay away from So)

Originally Posted by Bruno

I sold mine and haven't regretted it at all. Good riddance to it.[/SIZE]

Wow Bruno, a Belgian hating the coticule! I'm half expecting you to hate beer and chocolate too.

As others have indicated here, the coticule needs a little learning. I too gave up on my first one, and much later when I had learned more about straights I returned to it. It took me another couple of months of practice before I started to get consistent results. I couldn't do without it now.

I love chocolate and beer. And fries. And jenever. And most Belgian things.
Coticules however...

I have 1 blue / yellow combo stone lying near the kitchen sink for honing knives. I use the yellow side for removing metal and the blue side for making it sharp. Imo, the only thing a coticule is good for is removing metal. It's waay too finicky to be useful. The yellow side only seems to make my edges duller instead of sharper.

IME the coticule is a wonderful stone for honing razors. The old barbers in the USA, Newark, NJ area that I talked to in the '80s called them 'soap stones' and used the yellow only and with lather as the honing vehicle.

Bart's posts taught me how to realize the full potential of the coticule/bbw. Now here is where I may get controversial.... the edge I get off of a coticule is very comfortable and forgiving. IOW, it is not as sharp .... or do I mean harsh ... as the edge I would get off of my Shapton pros or my Naniwas.

It is like a Derby blade in a DE as opposed to a Feather blade. I can get an irritation free shave with a coticule honed blade with less attention to pressure than with a blade honed on synthetics. I also agree with Slartibartfast that if I want to 'cheat' and follow up with an Escher that the edge will be even better....i.e. sharper while maintaining the smoothness.

It is my belief that those old barbers venerated the coticule because of that forgiving and smooth nature of resulting edges. They had less worry about giving their customers irritation when they shaved them as they frequently did up until the '70s when the business started changing and barber shop shaves began to be rarity in the USA. Just IMHO.... as always YMMV.

I'm finding that I like the edges off of my natural stones (both Japanese and Coticule) better than the edges off my Shaptons for the reasons that you mentioned Jimmy. I'm just waiting for a couple of months to get my Escher and then I'll be complete

Originally Posted by Bruno

I like artificial stones especially for setting bevels, because they are faster (relatively speaking of course) and more predictable. I am free of HAD (as long as I stay away from So)

Completely plan on keeping my DMTs for just that purpose. The final edge off the EEE is completely shaveable, but I am looking for something a bit more. Have a Thuringian coming from Kees which should help and well the rest is just experimentation as I'm sure we all know.

I got a pretty good kick out of reading this thread and thank all the participants. I am still using Naniwa Supers, Shaptons and My Norton 4K/8K and rotate frequently getting pretty consistent and reliable results from all of them.

As far as a single stone method, I have tried Bart's method on the Coticule,Escher, Asagi, Syperdo Ultra, Arkansas Translucent, Chinese 12K and a couple obscure stones that I have. You can actually get that method to work on most of these stones, but a lot of effort and after the bevel is set. Not surprisingly the most consistent stones here were the Coticule, Escher and Asagi and they took some playing with to start getting there with slurry consistency and stroke numbers. I have put a couple hundred razors so far through that method and still get a kick every time a razor ends up shave ready from it. Got to admit that I still use the .5 diamond on felt when done.........

Now for finishing, I really like the Escher, Asagi, Kiita, Naniwa Chosera 10K but not as much as the Naniwa Super 12K, the Shapton 16K and a Charnley Forest. The Coticule will work too, but not my preference result wise, but still a decent result. It is always fun to play with the Naturals, but when it comes to needing a razor sharp and counting on getting it there virtually every time, I go with the others mentioned. I also find it easier to teach people to hone with a repeatable method and a synthetic water stone and then let them experiment with other hones after they start getting successful results (purely personal preference here).

I really would hate to decide this question on an either or basis.

I also might add that it is really hard to give someone an accurate opinion when you haven't used both the stones being asked about. Maybe that's just an internet thing and no offense to you'se guys.

Have fun.