Thread: Giving it another go.

I had given up on liking the Japanese natural hones that have come through my hands. Total of seven so far. Two of which weren't razor caliber, so I gave them to my brother for his chefs knives. The others wer all nice but I couldn't get the consistant edges off of them that I could off of my coticules and cro oxide, so I sold those ones. But I had the opportunity to get another 'good' one and thought I would take it.

What I got is a Nakayama Maruichi Kiita for Razor use hone. Size is 141mm x 87mmx 20mm. It has all of the stamps and I hope that it will perform better than the ones I had in the past. By better I mean that I hope the results will be more consistant. I also plan on getting some Nagura to test out their effect on this and some other hones that I am considering getting too.

The other two I am also considering getting are some more expensive ones. All of the ones I have got have been comparitively low priced and small. This one that I have bought and is pictured is the so called razor size of hones. The other two I am looking at getting are bigger still. One is a size 40 Oohira Suita (size is 205mm x 75mm x 25mm). I am planning on asking to test it before I buy it. It is labeled at #36000 grit. And the third hone I am thinking about getting to test out is a Nakayama Maruichi Mizu Asagi (the second one pictured below). This Asagi is a big one. 1700 grams. It is not a regular shape, more like an enlarged razor sized hone; size 168mm x 104mm x 38mm.

I don't have a picture of the Suita but I will try to get one later this week.

The Kiita and the Asagi are below. I think they will keep me busy for quite a while.

I have an Asagi, and I love it. Great hone! Nice pics, thanks for sharing.

This is the other stone I was talking about. The Oohira Suitayama Betsujou (special) size 40.

Full Stone



Close-up of the renge

I know its hard to rate natural stone grits, but isn't Ohira coarser grit than Nakayama?
As far as I understand nat stone grit progression would be
Aoto, Ohira, Nakayama. Those 3 should cove the range 1k -20k+
Is that correct ?

Depends on how deep the suita is. Usually the deeper layers are harder and finer. My Oohira is from the Tomae layer which is shallower and coarser than the Suita layer. Mine has turned out to be pretty soft but fine grained.

More info here: Japan Tool

I have one of ZethLent's hones. It isn't one of my finer J-Nat's, but it is a faster cutter. I wonder if that is one of the risks when a stone is lapped. You get a fresh more aggressive cutting edge. I wonder if the stone has to be broken in again. There is this thought that continued use breaks down the particle size and the hone gets finer with use.

For instance.

The first pic is my new Nakayama Najishi that I have not lapped.

I took that edge back to the Nakayama Najishi Momiji that I got from Zethlent. He had lapped it. I haven't really don anything but used it since.

Then I used some slurry that was left on my DMT coarse from lapping the Ohira Tomae and after rubbing that on the NNM and diluting it off I ing the same razor.

I wonder what method is used for flattening these stones originally and if that leaves a more "broken in" and ready for use surface.

hm interesting, my Nakayama does not leave a scratch pattern at all.

Nakayama is a mine name, so is Oohira, Ozuku, Okudo, Mizukihara, Shinden, Takashima etc. etc. There are many mines in the Kyoto region. Layers of strata also have names: suita, tomae etc. Then there are also other characteristics that describe the stone: nashiji, su-nashi, momiji, kiita, asagi, akasasu, karasu, akapin, kumori, iromono etc. It can be very confusing when you then mix in names of the stamps: maruichi, maruka, ipponsen, betsujou, yushu-shiageto, nihon-kamisori etc.

But a suita is a strata name and bring some of the best and high grit hones out there (can be in the 50000 grit range). Because there are so many things to consider with Jnats it would be prohibitivly expensive to find and try all of the different hones out there. I am not sure I will buy the Oohira Renge Suita pictured above, as the store owner won't let me try it out before I buy it. The Kiita also labeled a suita by the seller (who deals in Japanese hones in Japan) will be here tonight and I wil give it a go. It looks like a nice hone. But right now I am torn between the Oohira Renge Suita and the Nakayama Mizu Asagi. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Those are beautiful stones, Zeth. That Kiita especially. Thank you for posting pictures of them.

Something about Japanese naturals that I find beautiful. I never get tired of seeing good pictures of them, especially of nice stones like yours.

I got the Nakayama Kiita last night and I also ended up buying the Oohira Renge Suita on my lunch hour. So I had two hones to play with. I decided to try out the Oohira and leave the Nakayama for later.

So as not to ruin one of my shave ready razors I took an old Henkels, that I have, up to #5000 Chosera, and then tried out the Oohira. Initially I didn't make a slurry to see what would happpen, if anything. Nothing really happened. There was some change in the scratch pattern on the bevel but not much. So I worked up a light slurry and went back at it, this proved successful.

After examining the edge of the Henkels onder magnification I decided that the hone wouldn't harm my edges and would work just fine for razors.

I took out my Le Canadien made my TI and my Robert Williams Custom. Both razors had been finished on a very fine coticule and then cro oxide. They had also both been shaved with several times and both have quite hard high carbon steel. The only difference is the grind and the size.

I did about 50~75 laps on both. I didn't rinse off or change the slurry when I switched razors. I did add a little though. I have to say that it is a very nice size to use with razors. 205mm x 75mm seems just about right.

I took both razors to the bathroom to strop. I ussually do at least fifty cloth laps before I hit the leather but I didn't this time to see if the initial edge was going to need to tone down any harshness on the cloth. I ended up doing 50 laps on TM horsehide and 50 on Kanayama cordovan.

The shave was very nice. I have had troubles off and on with the harsh feel of freshly honed razors and this was DEFINATELY NOT the case. The edge was smooth and keen and left a silk smooth skin that didn't even hint at a burn when my AS splash was applied afterward.

All in all an excellent result. I will keep using them without the linen to see how the edge holds up.

The Oohira was an expensive hone but if it keeps on working like this I will be a happy man. I may not even try the Nakayama I have sitting in my razor drawer.

Originally Posted by mainaman

hm interesting, my Nakayama does not leave a scratch pattern at all.

The magnification is between 200x and 300x.