Thread: Newcomer to honing, ? for the experts

Gentlemen,

I'm new to straights and even newer to honing. Following your discussions here and poring over the various stickies, wikis, and videos has been a great help in getting me started.

To date I've honed three razors and gotten results that have been pleasing, to me at least. I can't say my results are better than the Ruprazor GD I have, but they have been encouraging. I half expected to turn my razors into butter knives and instead have made them sharp enough to shave comfortably with, much to my surprise and delight. I think I got a little taste of what the guy who discovered fire, or the wheel, or beer must have felt like... of course perusing SRP gave me a lot of help!

I followed the suggested Norton 4/8k pyramids, followed by a Chinese 12k, followed by CrOx on a balsa bench strop, followed by linen hanging strop, followed by latigo hanging strop. My stropping is far from great but at least now it makes things sharper instead of duller, like it did when I started.

My question for the honing gurus: Would adding a very fine Naniwa, Shapton, or Japanese stone between the Chinese and CrOx deliver a smoother, better shave? I'm not sure if a new toy will help me achieve better results or if more practice is simply what's needed, not more equipment. Or perhaps the truth lies somewhere in between?

I'm not even sure I have enough experience to appreciate a finer stone than what I've got... my shaves are comfortable and close, but I have a tough beard and wonder if the "wiping off the hair with no sensation" shave is even achievable in my case. No doubt shaving technique plays a part, and I'm working diligently on that too.

i look forward to soaking up as much knowledge here as possible, and to eventually progressing into a few restores (and a lot more honing) on my growing collection of straights, old and new(ish). Thanks for your patience and any advice you can spare!

First of all, congrats on your successful honing! :-)

Really you should be able to get a comfortable shave off the 8k side of the Norton. Everything else after that is just further polishing and refinement! A finer stone may add more "glide" but it wont add more sharpness.

It sounds to me like you have a good honing set up that covers all the bases from sharpeners up to finishers and some paste, so you certainly dont NEED any new stones. Wanting them is another matter though...!

I have the Shapton stones, in 1/4/8/16k, plus some 0.5 diamond spray. I dont need any other hones, but I'm still keen to add the 2k and the 30k to that set up, just to close the gaps between grits a little bit and add further refinement to my edge. I've also started toying with the idea of getting some CrOx on a paddle strop to use after the diamond spray, just to polish out some of the harshness the spray can give to the edge.

More stones means less time spent on each stone and a more progressive honing approach. Fewer stones may mean more time spent on each stone, but the end result should hopefully be pretty similar!

I believe the Naniwa superstones go up to 12k, so adding one of those probably wont make much difference. If you were going to add anything, I'd probably go for the 16k Shapton, which would sit nicely between the C12k and the c.30k level of the CrOx (0.5 micron is about 30k grit size).

But you really dont NEED anything else, as I say. Its just that once you get into honing it becomes addictive and then you have to fuel your addiction with huge amounts of rock..!

So I'm going to enable you and say get a 16k Shapton! Hehe! :-)

Good luck!

Glad to hear that your results have been successful. As Stubear said you don't need anything else ... the question is whether you want anything else. Experimenting with different hones is a hobby in itself and there are many to choose from. What you've got is doing the job but a high grit naniwa or shapton would be faster than your chinese 12k if that is worthwhile to you. Than there are the naturals, coticules, eschers and what have you. Just depends on how curious you are and how deep your pockets are.

How many strokes do you usually do on the 12k after the 8k?

Also, have you tried shaving off the 8k?

I fall in with everybody else here. I have a very tough beard, and I go directly from Norton 8k to a denim strop, to leather strop,and get very comfortable, smooth shaves & no irritation. In line with the above advice, I would recommend getting very proficient and consistent with what you have, and if you branch out later, you will be able to appreciate the nuances of other stones much better. For what it's worth.

As others have said, you can get a good edge with the equipment you have, but yeah, adding a 16k or 12k nani would help. I had a similar set up, except I use a Spyderco UF instead of C12k, and the Shapton 16k got me where I wanted to go much, much faster then the UF alone. But again, its not necessary, unless you've got HAD. If you've got HAD, then you better go ahead and get a new hone, or you'll start going into withdrawal soon...

Thank you gents for the words of encouragement! It means a lot.

After reading up here about the Chinese 12k I have done exactly 100 laps for each razor. Should 100 be enough?

I have not tried shaving off the 8k. The wheels are turning now... I think I smell smoke...

I do have a Spyderco UF, but I think it's uneven (seems almost concave) and I'd occasionally drag on the edge... it was unnerving and I stopped using it. One day I may try to lap it but am unsure. I don't have any diamond lapping plates other than some un-rated chicom units from Harbor Freight.

I have a NOS 7/8 Henckels Friodur (NOS, Spanish point, worked spine) en-route from DE, I hear that the inox steel likes a few extra strokes on the 8k and above due to its hardness? Are there stones specifically suited to the cryogenically tempered German stainless, or should I be good as equipped?

Also, I have read up on the coticules a bit and am intrigued, and I do have several old Sheffields to work on... I think I remember reading that this type of steel response well to those stones... hmmmmmmm.

Another point: After reading the yeas and nays on HHT, I decided to avoid it entirely as a potential source of confoundment. I will do a TPT occasionally, but I have been gauging readiness for shaving by hovering the blade through the hair on the back of my hand and arm. If it catches the hairs and pops them without more than a very light tug, I figure I'm good for the acid test, shaving. Do you think I'm on the right track or have I missed the boat?

I'm finding that honing is equally as interesting as str8 shaving, is very relaxing, and provides a great sense of accomplishment. Advice from the honing illuminati is always appreciated and I enjoy reading your posts. I will continue to practice and refine my technique, and will keep my eyes open for a coticule or possibly something else as funds allow.

Originally Posted by Teethbrush

Thank you gents for the words of encouragement! It means a lot.

After reading up here about the Chinese 12k I have done exactly 100 laps for each razor. Should 100 be enough?

I have not tried shaving off the 8k. The wheels are turning now... I think I smell smoke...

I do have a Spyderco UF, but I think it's uneven (seems almost concave) and I'd occasionally drag on the edge... it was unnerving and I stopped using it. One day I may try to lap it but am unsure. I don't have any diamond lapping plates other than some un-rated chicom units from Harbor Freight.

I have a NOS 7/8 Henckels Friodur (NOS, Spanish point, worked spine) en-route from DE, I hear that the inox steel likes a few extra strokes on the 8k and above due to its hardness? Are there stones specifically suited to the cryogenically tempered German stainless, or should I be good as equipped?

Also, I have read up on the coticules a bit and am intrigued, and I do have several old Sheffields to work on... I think I remember reading that this type of steel response well to those stones... hmmmmmmm.

Another point: After reading the yeas and nays on HHT, I decided to avoid it entirely as a potential source of confoundment. I will do a TPT occasionally, but I have been gauging readiness for shaving by hovering the blade through the hair on the back of my hand and arm. If it catches the hairs and pops them without more than a very light tug, I figure I'm good for the acid test, shaving. Do you think I'm on the right track or have I missed the boat?

I'm finding that honing is equally as interesting as str8 shaving, is very relaxing, and provides a great sense of accomplishment. Advice from the honing illuminati is always appreciated and I enjoy reading your posts. I will continue to practice and refine my technique, and will keep my eyes open for a coticule or possibly something else as funds allow.

With honing as Jendeindustries says, the answer is often "it depends." Sometimes 100 is enough and sometimes more or less is required. That hair popping you mentioned is a good way to get an idea of where you're at IME.

The same with the Friodur. You do whatever it takes. Some stainless will require a bit more than a high carbon but it also depends on where you edge is at the start.

As far as the Norton, there was a time when that was what everyone around here used. Back then it was all Lynn had used for years and he sharpened thousands of razors of all kinds so IMO you could stick with that and sharpen any razor that came down the pike. OTOH, times change and there are some killer stones out there nowadays so you have some options.

You can have a lot of fun with a coticule if you like honing. Personally I like something a bit more aggressive on an old Sheffield wedge, until the bevel is set anyway, but they are great stones. If you can afford it get a Belgian blue/yellow coticule combo with a slurry stone. Great performance between the two.

I think its worth it to lap your UF, the easiest way to do this without diamond plates is with SIC grit on a hard, flat surface-marble, glass, ect. They're very, very fine, but very, very slow cutting. More of a polisher. But there aren't may 50$ hones you can use after a Shapton 16k. I've heard that you can contact spyderco and get them to lap it if you tell them you use it for straight razors. I don't know if this is true, but if it is, I may have to get a 8x3 UF.

The main objections to the HHT seem to be that you have to use your judgment, and that some people have hair which doesn't work well with the HHT. Yours probably does, though (I don't think these people the majority). I think its a great tool for testing sharpness, and how the hair responds to the edge can tell you where you in your honing, once you're familiar with how your hair responds to different sharpnesses. Try it with the razors you're happy with and see how it goes.

Hanging Hair Test, from trick to probing method - Straight Razor Place Wiki

Thanks guys! I'll look into lapping my UF Spyderco and will work on more careful edge assessment... "whatever it takes" it shall be. Makes perfect sense! I'm also looking into a coticule from Zib and have been reading up on Bart's fine site.