Thread: HELP!!! Please help verify if stone is Karasu

@OLD_SCHOOL
I see...really appreciate your help, thank you.

@Pyment
I did not do anything to the stone until I get a reply from the seller which he quoted :
"This is Phantom karasu and Namazu.
Namazu = white point
Namazu is the evidence of the best Tenjyoh suita layers."
I dont know how true, can anyone confirm this?
Anyway, I have already try to rub both stone against each other to remove the center scratch when I decided to keep them but I failed.
I guess stone don't wear out so fast and this doest not feel like a soft stone.
After lapping, I realise that the pink small dot which is not so obvious at first became more reddish and cover most part of the stone that looks like blossom.

@kevint
This stone is about 7-8cm X 13-14cm X 4cm razor size, paid twice the amount stated in ebay listing. Maybe this is peanuts to some, I don't know really.
I have no experience in cutting or lapping stone, can I use sand belt to smoothen the crack? Please advise.
By the way, what is awasedo?

Originally Posted by Maplelite

By the way, what is awasedo?

it denotes that the stone is finishing stone. It is also an abbreviation which I can't find right now.

it's very very hard to tell a good Karasu from a photo alone. They're all pretty, but not all hone the same.

I have several Japanese naturals with Karasu figuring, because I'm a sucker for it and I think it's very pretty. But only two of them are Nakayama Karasu. They were a lot more expensive (4X+), and a lot better. Both the true Nakayama Karasu came from OLD_SCHOOL, and both the non-Nakayama mined Karasu-figured stone came indirectly from another seller, who originally purchased from 330Mate.

The non-Nakamaya Karasu are both very pretty (I think), and are actually serviceable hones that i don't regret buying, for their price. I would put them in the neighborhood of a low-end Coticule in terms of grit, and they are priced similarly. They have the nice "Karasu tug" feel when honing.

But they are much softer than the Nakayamas. Also:
- They show a noticeable difference (darkening) in color when wet, the Nakayamas do not.
- They have little to no red "skin" on them, especially their reverse side. The Nakayamas seem to have very extravagant red skin. This may not be unique to Nakayama, but just associated with higher-end stones.
- And the Nakayama Karasu are really, really hard, which can't be "felt" from a photo. A trusted seller who is knowledgeable about both Japanese stones and razors is needed to give a true evaluation for how a stone will work with razors.

Here is a set of 4 photos showing the surface and backside of two Japanese naturals with Karasu figuring, but are not Nakayama Karasu. The second stone may actually be Uchigumori rather than Karasu. I'll show photos of the two Nakayama Karasu I have in the next post:

These next two are Nakayama Karasu. The figure is very similar to those above, looking at photos alone. But when honing in hand, the differences are very noticeable. Both are very hard, and very fine, great finishers. The thin 3 X 5" one is much slower than the much thicker 1.5 X 7" one, but both are great stones. The rear and sides of the thin stone came lacquered with Urushi by OLD_SCHOOL, the thicker stone is un-laquered. The thin one is an Asagi with Karasu figure, the thick one is Kiita with Karasu figure.

Originally Posted by Maplelite

@OLD_SCHOOL
I see...really appreciate your help, thank you.

@Pyment
I did not do anything to the stone until I get a reply from the seller which he quoted :
"This is Phantom karasu and Namazu.
Namazu = white point
Namazu is the evidence of the best Tenjyoh suita layers."
I dont know how true, can anyone confirm this?
Anyway, I have already try to rub both stone against each other to remove the center scratch when I decided to keep them but I failed.
I guess stone don't wear out so fast and this doest not feel like a soft stone.
After lapping, I realise that the pink small dot which is not so obvious at first became more reddish and cover most part of the stone that looks like blossom.

@kevint
This stone is about 7-8cm X 13-14cm X 4cm razor size, paid twice the amount stated in ebay listing. Maybe this is peanuts to some, I don't know really.
I have no experience in cutting or lapping stone, can I use sand belt to smoothen the crack? Please advise.
By the way, what is awasedo?

I am not one who can afford to throw money away either. What I am saying is if you look at the part that is usable maybe it wont be so bad, not that you have to or even should do what I would. I would not just cut it up- i did not mean to come across that way. all the pieces I have cut, i thought long and hard about and used enough to at least think that I knew what was best.

The side view looks sealed so at least some attempt has been made, as not all the stones from 330 are sealed. The ones that are, at least are worth some special attention. Not to overstate things not a big effort but some. Considering that you paid double; it is fair to expect that the performance and utility of the sweeter portion be satisfying-it should work as described in a very good way.
It would not hurt to seal/ fill it better should you keep it.
worth reading: Japanese Woodworking Forums • View topic - Natural Sharpening Stone Breakage

Japanese Woodworking Forums • View topic - Natural stone Mystery

How did you decide upon this one from all others?

Interesting, I was browsing So's page and saw a Shobudani Karaso stone that was not spotted it just has a few dark streaks.

@mainaman
Thanks for translating

@BigboySlim
Thanks you for taking the trouble and time to post your stone for a noob like me to see.
Your Green Nakayama Karasu looks especially attractive to me.

@kevint
I see...maybe I will use the stone for a while before deciding whether I want to correct the stone. What do you mean by "How did you decide upoon this one from all others"?
If you mean why I choose karasu over the others, the reason is because I read up somewhere that say Karasu is a hard stone good for finishing.

Originally Posted by mainaman

Interesting, I was browsing So's page and saw a Shobudani Karaso stone that was not spotted it just has a few dark streaks.

Can you paste the link?
I don't know where to find the page. Thanks

Originally Posted by Maplelite

Can you paste the link?
I don't know where to find the page. Thanks

I can't link the page, they al have the same web address ,
I will just link the pic source.
http://www.japan-tool.com/toishi/ten...ani_Tomae1.jpg

Originally Posted by kevint

I am not one who can afford to throw money away either. What I am saying is if you look at the part that is usable maybe it wont be so bad, not that you have to or even should do what I would. I would not just cut it up- i did not mean to come across that way. all the pieces I have cut, i thought long and hard about and used enough to at least think that I knew what was best.

The side view looks sealed so at least some attempt has been made, as not all the stones from 330 are sealed. The ones that are, at least are worth some special attention. Not to overstate things not a big effort but some. Considering that you paid double; it is fair to expect that the performance and utility of the sweeter portion be satisfying-it should work as described in a very good way.
It would not hurt to seal/ fill it better should you keep it.
worth reading: Japanese Woodworking Forums • View topic - Natural Sharpening Stone Breakage

Japanese Woodworking Forums • View topic - Natural stone Mystery

How did you decide upon this one from all others?

There is a lot of info in the "natural stone mystery" thread. I have read it a number of times.

Interesting observation on the sealed edge. It seems that 330mate has a bunch of second hand stones recently. I wonder if he has bought out someone's estate and the sealed stones are from there.

Looking at the side view, one can tell that the Karasu goes all the way through.