Thread: What Exaclty Is a Barber's Hone?

Sham, it still doesn't answer my questions. I think I'll leave it!

I'll give it a shot on a Double Arrow finished on a swaty and mystery barber hone Vs. a Wapi I haven't honed in months. (Finished on a "C12k" and CrO")

JeffR: I think that's a plausible explanation similar to what I think it may be... but I think the teeth would allow the blade to cut better than a finer edge. The latter would need more maintenance to cut optimally at all times.

I have yet to experience an edge finished on a barber's hone lasting less than a couple of months.

I hate trying to defend ideas I don't really know if I believe but my Carborundum 103 barber hone cuts pretty fast and leaves an edge that is less polished, than say an 8K hone. The 8K puts on a nicer deeper polish. That polish might be a little sharper and then last a little longer.

My Swaty on the other hand is really hard and fine and puts a really tight edge on.

Past that, or why that becomes a rule for all barber hones; of which there are likely a hundred varieties, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what the "finishing" hone is that we are talking about either.

Once you buy a hone I think the interval between honings becomes a pretty unimportant issue.

Originally Posted by v76

Sham, it still doesn't answer my questions. I think I'll leave it!

I'll give it a shot on a Double Arrow finished on a swaty and mystery barber hone Vs. a Wapi I haven't honed in months. (Finished on a "C12k" and CrO")

JeffR: I think that's a plausible explanation similar to what I think it may be... but I think the teeth would allow the blade to cut better than a finer edge. The latter would need more maintenance to cut optimally at all times.

I have yet to experience an edge finished on a barber's hone lasting less than a couple of months.

One observation while lurking and searching the web may
be apropos to this. This is in regard to grit and tooth. It
was noted when I looked at the Spyderco Ultra Fine Grit
Ceramic Bench hone and a Spyderco employee comment.
His comment was that the sieve size was not different
but the firing and finish was different on the Ultra Fine...

To the point I see this same issue on three hone
materials.

• ARKANSAS STONES
• Barber Hones
• Ceramic hones

All three seem to have the an invariant grit/ grain size but
all three behave differently depending on how hard it is.

The harder hones seem to self polish with use and because
of the polish appear to have less of a tooth and more of a
finishing effect. Because they are hard the individual grains
stay in place and do not turn up a new sharp cutting edge
or slurry.

I know that my Arkansas stones act differently after being
dressed. Each stone also acts differently depending on how it
was last dressed. This was most noticeable to me on a
black hard Arkansas stone that only came into its own
as a polisher when I last finish dressed it with 8000 grit
loose grit.

I have seen some sintered hones get a glazed polished look and get
slow on me. When glazed and polished I can see the flat table like surface
on the individual grains reflect sunlight. The sintered bench stone
I use for some of my kitchen knives both self polishes and
glazes over with time. I use a little bit of kitchen stainless
pot cleaner and the glaze goes away but not the polish.
Sometimes I dust the wet surface with 8000 grit to
coax it into cutting faster (akin to a slurry) should I need
to sharpen a friends abused kitchen knife. This does diminish
the polish.

I have also seen this polishing and tabling effect on hand stones used
to finish cement, hand set stone floor and walk ways. After
a while they polish out and get slow. Tossing half a bit of sharp
sand under it gets it cutting again.

So the life of the edge that results from a barber hone can
be very different depending on the hones history. An old hone may
polish and finish very well. Lapping that same hone to be flat
can leave a tooth that reflects the tooth of the lap. That tooth
should polish out and the hone come home with use. Lapping with
diamond should be different than lapping with other abrasives
as it can start the flat polished table on hard carbides.

Because there are so many variations out there the stable character
of a hone that develops with time after lapping will differ.

If I am right on this observation it would explain why there are
so many different and mixed opinions on this.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I hate trying to defend ideas I don't really know if I believe but my Carborundum 103 barber hone cuts pretty fast and leaves an edge that is less polished, than say an 8K hone. The 8K puts on a nicer deeper polish. That polish might be a little sharper and then last a little longer.

My Swaty on the other hand is really hard and fine and puts a really tight edge on.
.

i agree with both carborundum 103 and swaty.
you have descried exactly how they act.
Problem is touch up hones you usually don't use more then 2- 6 strokes. Many of them out there even you can see in their instruction. i would put up picture's.
I think this is confusing us. i am not talking about swaty you can use swaty make 100 strokes will not hurt the edge.
if you use touch up hones more then what you have to edge just brakes down.
i have test this in cmon, and frictionate00 in fine side.hope this clear a little

That is a beautiful hone.

Originally Posted by v76

Also, to add to your question... I read many times in this forum that a barber's hone edge won't last as long as that of a whetstone. Are there any facts and explanations to back this up?

This is the first I've ever heard of this. Do you have any threads where this has come up?

Originally Posted by mparker762

This is the first I've ever heard of this. Do you have any threads where this has come up?

Well, this thread! I didn't want to point anybody but Sham (hi_bud_gl) posted many times about this and always made me curious about the veracity of that "fact". You should be able to find the other threads if you look at his prior posts.

I am not (yet) acquinted with honing razors, but from the things said in this thread I can possibly provide an answer.
First of all, see the edge of a knife or razor as a really fine saw edge, you can't see the teeth, but they are there.

An edge is dull when the teeth break. Running them over a wedstone removing metal and setting new teeth, results in a sharp edge.
The finer the grid, the finer the teeth are and thus the sharper the edge.

A second factor is how aggresive the stone is. A more aggresive sharpening stone obviously removes more metal, but being so agressive it also leaves a more rugged and less polished edge. This means a very fine but very agressive stone can yield the same result as a less fine, less agressive stone.

Barberhones, as stated, are very aggresive. So despite being very fine the edges they leave are more raw due to being agressive and therefore are similar to edges on less fine sharpening stones. A 10k grit finishing stone that is less agressive and requires more time would for example give a more fine and polished edge that wears less quick.

This is only theory and obviously in practice this doesn't always have to be the case. Thus this can create more confusion in the discussion.

This is an old thread and most of the players are long gone.

And yet I was fascinated to read the differing ways they kind of said the same thing. If there was no standard, or measurement of grit size for Vintage Barber hones that makes comparison of them as a group difficult.
My take away; Assume your Mystery hone is aggressive until proven otherwise.
I didn't find the "barber hones characteristics" thread someone mentioned over 5 years ago.